Hardcore recommendations[views:14103][posts:147]_____________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:01pm - orgymf@work ""] joeyumbrella said:seems everyone is biased to their "type of core" to say earth crisis wasn't hardcore, and is "wiggercore" is gay (complete offense intended... LOVE YOU ORGY!!!!!!!) forced march/firestorm was awesome fucking hardcore you weren't calling me gay when i was raping you bitch! did you ever clean that spot off the sheets? i dunno man...it's just my opinion.....disagree with it as strongly as you would like, but to me earth crisis fits that description of "toughguy/wiggerslam/floorpunch" which to me never was (and never will be) hardcore. doesn't mean there is anything wrong with enjoying it. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:05pm - orgymf@work ""] MikeofDecrepitude said: orgymf@work said:old school "hardcore punk", "crust" and "fast hardcore" is real hardcore. this wigger shit calling itself h.c. (25 ta life, earth crisis, etc.) is not....it's wigger slam before the blastbeats....this crap evolved into victory records, which evolved into wigger slam dm..... it's not real hardcore, any more than cradle of filth is real black metal. just my opinion When I think of bands who have beatdown parts that you describe as "wigger slam", I think of Bulldoze, Cease 2 Exist, Billy Club Sandwich, Shattered Realm. All bands that are or were sick. thay may be sick....that's fine you may enjoy them....that's fine. but the basic point is if there are slam/mosh/beatdown parts...it is not true to what hardcore originally was, hardcore was just a harsher, angrier (and sometimes faster) form of punk. Misfits, Minor Threat = hardcore Romantic Gorilla, Spazz = fast hardcore/crust heavy/tough guy/beatdown = watered down version of slow death metal minus the growling, played by gang members (and/or wannabe gang members) in baggy clothing and sports jerseys. |
| _______________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:10pm - xmikex ""] Um, excuse me everyone. Hardcore died 25 years ago when such influential bands as Flipper, and the Minutemen broke up. All music came to an end. Ian Mackaye and Moby both said so. |
| __________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:12pm - dreadkill ""] i read "fast hardcore" as "fartcore." i need a blumpkin. |
| _______________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:15pm - xmikex ""] corpus_colostomy said: terror st (many thanks to XmikeX) Terror Ave. Not Terror Street. Turn in your dunks. Lazer remove your gang tats. You're fired. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:33pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] >> thay may be sick....that's fine you may enjoy them....that's fine. but the basic point is if there are slam/mosh/beatdown parts...it is not true to what hardcore originally was, hardcore was just a harsher, angrier (and sometimes faster) form of punk. Misfits, Minor Threat = hardcore Romantic Gorilla, Spazz = fast hardcore/crust heavy/tough guy/beatdown = watered down version of slow death metal minus the growling, played by gang members (and/or wannabe gang members) in baggy clothing and sports jerseys.>> There can't be a variation on a theme? I should make mention that while sparse, you can find growling on All Out War's TitAoL and Shattered Realm also used to have a DM influenced vocalist. I can't really agree with your opinion that it's watered down "slow death metal", because aside from slams, beatdown riffs, or whatever your fancy; there's no other death metal riffs, vocals, or imagery to these bands. I mean, Shattered Realm had a vocalist who used to growl, but they had more parts that reminded me of Slayer, as opposed to Death Metal. Real metal influenced hxc has produced some pretty cool bands, and by blurring those lines, it allowed people to recognize merits in both genre's and to not be so biased towards one or the other. |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:45pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] I back Conservationist's post approximately 1000% (which is a surreal experience, I can assure you). BobDead and Lamp covered the remainder, I'd say. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:50pm - orgymf@work ""] variation on a theme?? listen, it's just a different style of music. you guys disagree with me until you are blue in the face. but grindcore, and hardcore, are punk rooted. if you hear no trace of punk in the guitar sound. it is not grind or hardcore. that is definitive. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 2:52pm - orgymf@work ""] i am not saying there is anything wrong with enjoying that floorpuncher/victory records/beat down shit....but it ain't hardcore. calling that stuff hardcore, is like saying emo is punk, screamo is metal and whitebelt is grind.... all incorrect. |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:00pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] Total super-backed. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:00pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] But the bands I mentioned do have those riffs you're referring to..... |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:01pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] Wait screamo is a real genre? And what is whitebelt? That's new to me. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:04pm - RustyPS ""] MikeofDecrepitude said:Wait screamo is a real genre? And what is whitebelt? That's new to me. Real screamo (at least to me) is stuff like Pg. 99, Orchid, and the like no idea what whitebelt is....maybe something like See You Next Tuesday? |
| _______________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:04pm - xmikex ""] In the interest of doing my very best to stay out of a musical debate I'm going to mindlessly name off some bands that I'm enjoying this week. Six Foot Ditch (UK) Creepout (Japan) Terror Zone In My Eyes Turmoil Subzero Most High Game (Japan) Project X |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:13pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] I thought whitebelt had something to do with the initial belt you start off with in Karate. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:16pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] Orgy, let me throw this one at you: If Marduk is nothing but blasting and Burzum's Filosofem is slow and blastless, which is the "true" black metal, and which is false? |
| _______________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:22pm - xmikex ""] If Abbath falls in the woods... |
| __________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 3:25pm - dreadkill ""] xmikex said:If Abbath falls in the woods...hahahaha |
| _________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 4:08pm - fags on wheeels ""] [img] the face of true hardcore. |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 4:21pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] Mike of D: Not that you asked me, but I'd say they were both black metal bands - since black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects, and both styles fit under that umbrella. Hardcore, on the other hand, is a specific subgenre of punk, defined mainly by being raw and fast (as opposed to the art-school stuff that was prevalent towards the end of the 70s). It's the "raw and fast (punk)" that makes it hardcore; otherwise you've got hold of something else, there. |
| _________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 4:27pm - largefreakatzero ""] Maybe I missed it, but nobody mentioned Killing Time (used to be Raw Deal, then had to change their name). One of my all time faves. |
| _________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 6:29pm - grizloch ""] if "true" hardcore is rooted in punk (hence "hardcore punk"), then why cant "tough guy" and the like be rooted in hardcore (just "hardcore," -punk)? not so much variation, but evolution its a semantics argument for sure, and frankly I don't care one way or the other, I like what I like which, like everyone else, isn't defined by genre, but I wish more people would go back to calling "metallic hardcore" (not so much metalcore) crossover, it seems easier that way no offense to anyone, but the people who get really hung up on genres tend to be the types who care too much what other people think of their musical tastes, that person wouldnt want someone who thinks borkencyde or fall out boy is hardcore to associates them with liking hardcore I still think metal fans are way more uptight about genres than hardcore kids, but I love both the music and the fans just the same why can't we all just get along |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 6:32pm - the_reverend ""] where does backstabbers inc fit into this? |
| _____________________________ [Jan 5,2009 6:36pm - Lamp ""] orgymf@work said:old school "hardcore punk", "crust" and "fast hardcore" is real hardcore. this wigger shit calling itself h.c. (25 ta life, earth crisis, etc.) is not....it's wigger slam before the blastbeats....this crap evolved into victory records, which evolved into wigger slam dm..... it's not real hardcore, any more than cradle of filth is real black metal. just my opinion I was gonna say something along these lines but really didn't feel like opening a can of worms. Seeing shit like Trash Talk and other trendy 15-minute bands in this thread makes me a sad panda. |
| _____________________________ [Jan 5,2009 6:36pm - Lamp ""] the_reverend said:where does backstabbers inc fit into this? Hardest band to categorize...ever... |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 6:48pm - the_reverend ""] good, I'm not the only one who thinks that. |
| _____________________________ [Jan 5,2009 6:52pm - Lamp ""] That band, along with SOD's Bigger Than The Devil have blended so many genres that they don't really fit anywhere. Crossover punk grind thrash hardcore? |
| ________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 7:48pm - RustyPS ""] Lamp said:Seeing shit like Trash Talk and other trendy 15-minute bands in this thread makes me a sad panda.Trendy or not, I find Trash Talk quite enjoyable. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 8:33pm - mikeofdecrepitude ""] I mean, if Hardcore is a faster version of punk, then what is Grindcore? Grindcore is simply detuned, fast punk riffs, scream/growl trade off's, and blasting. |
| _____________________________ [Jan 5,2009 8:39pm - Lamp ""] Grindcore is a seamless fusion of extreme metal and hardcore punk. |
| _____________________________ [Jan 5,2009 8:40pm - Lamp ""] By the way, that question adds nothing to your point either since grindcore is recognized as a separate genre rather than being lumped in as hardcore. |
| _________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 9:33pm - MillenialKingdom ""] Grindcore is awesome d00d. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 9:53pm - mikeofdecrepitude ""] I was making a point in referencing grindcore? I thought I was just asking a question and giving my definition of what Grind is. I've always considered grind and hxc to be separate genre's, with punk being the root source for grind and early hxc. It was said that hxc is faster, more pissed off punk, and the same definition can be applied to grind. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 5,2009 10:46pm - xmikex ""] DestroyYouAlot said:black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects Finally someone hit the nerve of the argument, but you're headed in the wrong direction. Hardcore was a bi-product of 77 punk, etc. but it's very much defined by an ethos much like black metal. It's the only rationale for why nerds who collect burzum records are exactly as queer as nerds who collect black flag records. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 1:06am - joeyumbrella ""] is it already "not cool" to like trash talk? is it just because they are on deathwish, or because people have heard of them? |
| ___________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 1:09am - RichHorror ""] As soon as one person hears your band you are a sellout piece of living shit. I've never heard them but cool guys with attractive girlfriends like them so fuck that. |
| ___________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 1:26am - ArilliusBM ""] fuck that, let's list some blackcore bands... or hardmetal bands |
| _____________________________ [Jan 6,2009 6:12am - Lamp ""] mikeofdecrepitude said:I was making a point in referencing grindcore? I thought I was just asking a question and giving my definition of what Grind is. I've always considered grind and hxc to be separate genre's, with punk being the root source for grind and early hxc. It was said that hxc is faster, more pissed off punk, and the same definition can be applied to grind. Don't say "hxc", it's just "hc" if you're going to refer to it shorthand. Only idiots refer to it as "hxc". |
| ________________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 6:44am - BobNOMAAMRooney ""] That's the same reason why I stopped calling it BMX, can't talk now motherfuckers I gotta train for the bowel movement race this weekend. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 8:01am - MikeofDecrepitude ""] Haha, I love this fascist attitude towards defining what is or isn't HXC. Now I'm labeled an idiot for abbreviating HXC the way I always have? Cool, man. People claim Black Metal fans are elitist? This is the same exact thing. I mean, I wouldn't go as far as to call this an argument; at least for me, this is a musical debate. So consensus among some is that HXC is solely defined by sped up punk riffs and d-beat. So a band like Bulldoze isn't hardcore because they inject slower riffs into their songs, even though they still fit the criteria for hardcore. Besides, those slower riffs are a part of the NYHC sound. Now excuse me, I need to go catch up on my genre terminology, because I wouldn't want internet forum user's to think I'm an idiot, oh heavens no. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:29am - orgymf@work ""] ok....there is way too much too respond to since i was last online. i can agree that this shit that people refer to as hardcore is rooted in hardcore (at least the bands who still use punk riffs in their music)...but that doesn't make it hardcore. saying a band that uses a small element of hardcore, (but plays something completely different) is still hardcore, is like throwing tootsie rolls and candy corn in some mashed potatoes and calling it shepards pie. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:30am - orgymf@work ""] i know, i know, leave it to the fat fuck to use a food reference in a music arguement. |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:36am - orgymf@work ""] grizloch said: no offense to anyone, but the people who get really hung up on genres tend to be the types who care too much what other people think of their musical tastes, that person wouldnt want someone who thinks borkencyde or fall out boy is hardcore to associates them with liking hardcore it's not that i care what others think of my musical taste....so much as it gets annoying to have to explain shit to people. i can't stand when someone asks if i dig hardcore, i say yes, and they start rattling off victory records nonsense... it especially annoys me when dealing with younger people who seem to think genres change just because they say so. my girlfriends 19 year old cousin started babbling about how he "loves punk rock" which lead me and my girl and her brother to start babbling about the Sex Pistols, Crass, Meatmen, Screeching Weasel etc. and this douche says "that isn't punk anymore....i meant GOOD bands, like AFI and Thursday" i wanted to saw his head off |
| _____________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:40am - orgymf@work ""] MikeofDecrepitude said:Orgy, let me throw this one at you: If Marduk is nothing but blasting and Burzum's Filosofem is slow and blastless, which is the "true" black metal, and which is false? i'll be honest with you i hate black metal, and know very little about it. but i know that the few BM fans i hang out with hate CoF being called Black Metal, just as i hate floorpuncher bands being referred to as hardcore..... which is why i used that example |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:42am - MikeofDecrepitude ""] I think we can both agree that shepherd's pie is pretty amazing. |
| __________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:42am - dreadkill ""] xmikex said: DestroyYouAlot said:black metal is defined by an ethos as much as by the musical aspects Finally someone hit the nerve of the argument, but you're headed in the wrong direction. Hardcore was a bi-product of 77 punk, etc. but it's very much defined by an ethos much like black metal. It's the only rationale for why nerds who collect burzum records are exactly as queer as nerds who collect black flag records. they are queer nerds because both band names start with B. |
| ___________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:48am - arilliusbm ""] if you guys want to find some elitist people, let's talk about the deadheads who collect all the dead's bootlegs and then argue for hours about stuff like that |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 9:50am - DestroyYouAlot ""] LOL @ Orgy ... xmikex, I actually agree with you 100%, but I was just trying to make the point that hardcore was/is defined as much by its speed as it is by its connection to punk ideas, where black metal, as a genre, is a little more "elastic" in what it can encompass, musically. Also, if I collect Burzum records AND Black Flag records, does the nerdiness add or multiply? *snort* |
| ___________________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 10:00am - MikeofDecrepitude ""] Nothing wrong with collecting recordings of your favorite bands, whether it's metal or hippie music. I don't get down with Jerry Garcia but you'll find Varg Vikernes music in my record collection. Also nothing wrong with debating, until people want to get red-assed and cut others down because their opinions differ. Opinionated facts: You know I love 'em. |
| ____________________________________ [Jan 6,2009 10:05am - arilliusbm ""] Who "collects" Burzum records? They're not exactly the hardest things to find; that is, unless you're looking for certain presses. If you're into black metal and want to "collect" albums, I'd suggest doing some stuff that's a little rare and hard to find. But then again, I know nothing of this subject matter and only listen to A Flock Of Seagulls. |