Does having a sludge element in your band automatically make your band a hipster band?[views:32836][posts:194]__________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 5:50pm - nekronaut ""] Really? It made too much sense that it didn't even cross my mind. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 5:58pm - arilliusbm ""] Well, i'd assume because a.) He knows what he's talking about when it comes to doom (although i'm not sure how big he is on funeral doom, etc.) And b.) well-written and c.) Haven't seen him logged in since the trollathon |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 6:04pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] Can we make the obvious point that funeral doom has nothing to to with the actual rest of the doom genre? For the most part? Might dispense with an awful lot of "doom blah blah blah (excepting of course fringe case funeral doom)" talk. |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 6:05pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] It's easier to talk about Sabbath fetishists if you leave the goth weirdos out of it, after all. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 6:09pm - arilliusbm ""] DestroyYouAlot said:Can we make the obvious point that funeral doom has nothing to to with the actual rest of the doom genre? For the most part? Might dispense with an awful lot of "doom blah blah blah (excepting of course fringe case funeral doom)" talk. NO SHIT SHIZLOCK |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 6:47pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] So can we stop pointing it out, then? lulz |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 6,2011 7:00pm - arilliusbm ""] Skepticism > Any band mentioned in this thread? |
| _______________________________ [Dec 6,2011 8:58pm - Burnsy ""] Answer to original question is no, though it definitely increases the odds. |
| ____________________________ [Dec 6,2011 11:58pm - Uh ""] Lysander said:Well, let's put it this way. Weedeater used to play to no one at O'Briens That's because Earth played the same day at TT's, which has waaay more hipster cred. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 12:43am - nekronaut ""] Kirk Lloyd So im 42 days totally clean & sober!!!!Dont have the time to reach out to everyone i want to but those that are important to me know who they are.Just know i miss and love you all and im working to become a better man!! |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 12:48am - nekronaut ""] This thread is now officially a "Never thought I'd read about Kirk from Buzzov*en being clean" appreciation thread. |
| ___________________________ [Dec 7,2011 2:30am - Uh ""] Lysander said:Well, let's put it this way. Weedeater used to play to no one at O'Briens, and tour in a small van selling homemade beef jerky at their merch booth. They took turns driving while none of them owned a valid driver's license, drinking cough syrup, puking onstage, and swallowing bags of cocaine for fun. Not many people cared, as this just was not particularly cool except to a select breed of self-described scumbag. Now Weedeater plays big places, and the same fifty or so scumbags are there. Just add a couple hundred more kids with trucker hats, v-necks, tight pants, and fixies, plus bigger vans, bigger venues, and a tour manager to keep them in line. That's the "sludge" scene in a nutshell. So-called "hipster" culture has always gravitated towards the "fashion" and ideals of the working class that their upper-middle class upbringings lacked. Considering either Electric Wizard or Isis a sludge band is a stretch, both have the elements, yet, that just ain't it. Both have/had pretty significant "hipster" followings. The E. Wiz occult thing is pretty hip right now in "doom/stoner" circles, and Isis's post-metal thing was pretty hip around the time that Oceanic was released, Pelican came out, Mogwai go more stoned, and Neurosis got more motherfucking mellow. That ain't the marrow of the matter. See Eyehategod, Grief, Buzzo*ven, Sourvein, Weedeater, Noothgrush, and Cavity for real sludge. For me, Cavity is the only one that actually ever mattered musically, but hey, my taste in music blows. Why else would I hang out here? Proceed by inference. Go see how much the attendance at shows for these bands (at least the ones still active) has jumped, and take a look at who is at the shows. Better yet, look who is supporting. Weedeater toured with with ASG. Nuff said. Eyehategod is always supported by the trendiest bands that all the cool kids follow, even the local ones. Personally, doesn't matter to me, good one them, they slugged it out for years and years while no one gave two shits. Form your own damn opinions, that's all they're ever good for. Okay, I'll make a lame serious reply now. =/ Basically after listening to sludge for whatever many years, this has been my observations and opinions on the genre and the different types of sludge. I'm sure no one will agree with these 100% as these are just my humble and probably stupid opinions. Bands like Grief, Cavity and Floor, slowing down the grind/crust/punk/hardcore genre, such as going from Disrupt to Grief, started the more "traditional" or "core" sludge sound. You can also hear this transition from hardcore to sludge clearly in bands like His Hero is Gone, and Cable. This eventually led to mostly to what some would call the "core" of sludge like Mugwart, Black Cobra, Coffins, etc. Drone doom, the most boring genre, I'd guess mainly came from Earth taking his depressing as fuck doom metal and adding drone which has been around forever. This concept was taken a bit further by bands like Boris, Thrones and most famously Sunn O))). Sludge mixing this drone element, or bands just exploring further how heavy and slow they could get, produced bands like Corrupted, Buried at Sea, Noothgrush, and later bands like Ocean, The Body, Otesanek, Graves at Sea, Atavist. This genre started getting bigger and more accessible with bands like Khanate and Nadja. Bands like Eyehategod and Acid Bath creating the more southern stonerish sludge scene taking obvious southern influence and influence from bands like Corosion of Confirmity. This probably influenced the overall sound of sludge bands like Weedeater, Zoroaster, Fistula, Sourvein, etc. Stoner/sludge coming from the pretty well established stoner rock scene, and obviously heavy Sabbath influence, combining with sludge to create bands like Electric Wizard. Since there are about a billion stoner rock bands, many many bands carried the torch for crossing over between stoner rock and doom like Orange Goblin, Goatsnake, Witchcraft, Beaver, Grand Magus, etc. This became accessible and very popular by High on Fire and later The Sword. Eventually some bands adopted this with a heavier more doom influenced sound with bands like Sleep, YOB, etc. The atmospheric sludge (post-metal) sound basically came from Broadrick and Green in Godflesh, where they wanted to add a thicker more metal sound to a heavily industrial influenced band, which you can kind of hear in Broadrick's teenage project, Final. This sound was then take further by Neurosis who instead of using an industrial influence, mixed it with their post hardcore sound. This is the sludge genre that got largely popularized within college crowd, which I guess we could call hipsters, with outbreak of Isis' Oceanic album. This album basically marked start of the huge popularization of sludge, leading to the popularization of bands like Pelican and then re-sparked by Jesu. However these 'hipster' sludge bands led to some pretty good sludge bands like Minsk, Cult of Luna, Conifer, 5ive, Rwake (taking the Eyehategod influence), Callisto, Mouth of the Architect, Dirge, Men In Search of The Perfect Weapon, Rosetta, Lento. This also began being heavily influenced by post-rock such as Mogwai, where bands like North were literally post-rock bands, but after adding a vocalist, instantly became a sludge band. Because of this genre basically exploding at this time after Oceanic titled, this is more of what the "hipster" connotation comes in for when someone says "sludge". A lot of these new sludge fans go into the more accessible bands from the other sludge types like Khanate, Sunn O))), High On Fire, and then eventually got into the bigger bands in the genre like Electric Wizard, Weedeater, Corrupted, etc. Not sure if this is a bad thing other than more people being at the shows, but it's also kind of sad being the only person who paid to get in at sludge shows for touring bands. ...As far as a segway from sludge to funeral doom, drone influenced doom led to heavier industrial influenced bands such as Pavementsaw, P.H.O.B.O.S, and Uncertainty Principle (who did a split with the funeral band, Torture Wheel), and then continuing on the progression, you can get to bands like Hjarnidaudi. Also Mikko from Fleshpress is in Stabat Mater, WHO WERE PROBABLY HEAVILY FUCKING INFLUENCED FROM SKEPTICISM AND dISEMBOWELMENT. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 3:07am - Lysander ""] ^ Eh, that is not how I would write the history of any of these "genres", not even remotely close. However, if that makes you feel happy or smart to look at the progression of these genres with such a revisionist regard towards their history, go for it. |
| ____________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 5:37am - dickhead666 ""] the trendwhores have been coming to sludge shows since as far back as i can remember. at an eyehategod show in the late 90s you still would've had a noticeable portion of the crowd represented by the isis-fan/basement emo/vegan/bike courier thing...... the then-equivalent of the hardcore hipster, just a little more underground. now we have a lot more internet, which sort of makes EVERYTHING more visible and accessible. |
| _____________________________ [Dec 7,2011 5:42am - Lamp ""] never mind, shitty reading comprehension |
| ____________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 5:48am - dickhead666 ""] who, me? |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 5:51am - frankovhell ""] Lol yeah i agree completely wiht Lysander. |
| _____________________________ [Dec 7,2011 6:00am - Lamp ""] dickhead666 said:who, me? Nah, I removed what I'd written because my reading comprehension blows. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 6:55am - arilliusbm ""] Well said Uh |
| ____________________________ [Dec 7,2011 12:00pm - Uh ""] Lysander said: ^ Eh, that is not how I would write the history of any of these "genres", not even remotely close. However, if that makes you feel happy or smart to look at the progression of these genres with such a revisionist regard towards their history, go for it. Just some opinions, I'm sure I'd write it completely differently and less idiotic sounding if I put more time into it, but just wanted to say how the "hipster" part of sludge was a very small part of it. I still think they all ripped off Godflesh though... |
| ______________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 12:42pm - the_reverend ""] this is actually a really good thread. I will read when I get more time. I think from some skimming that people got "slugde" and "spacerock" confused at first. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 1:17pm - Lysander ""] Uh said: Just some opinions That's really all there is, isn't there? |
| ______________________________ [Dec 7,2011 2:46pm - hlrie ""] Godflesh also not sludge!!!! I'm sticking with my first comment. Melvins = sludge. Most everything else listed here is sludge like or stoner but not sludge. Actual sludge bands..... Melvins, EHG, Acid Bath, COC, Buzzoven, Crowbar..... |
| ____________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 3:06pm - arktourO‘s ""] hlrie said:Godflesh also not sludge!!!! Melvins = sludge. YEPO |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 3:08pm - arilliusbm ""] I thought Godflesh was hiphop. |
| ______________________________ [Dec 7,2011 3:31pm - hlrie ""] Haha! Don't get me started on having to define what is and is not industrial now. |
| ___________________________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 3:32pm - RustyPS should be working ""] arilliusbm said:I thought Godflesh was dubstep. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 5:14pm - nekronautloggedin ""] hlrie said:Godflesh also not sludge!!!! I'm sticking with my first comment. Melvins = sludge. Most everything else listed here is sludge like or stoner but not sludge. Actual sludge bands..... Melvins, EHG, Acid Bath, COC, Buzzoven, Crowbar..... YEAH, I JUST RANTED VIA FBOOK VIDEOS YESTERDAY |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 5:22pm - arilliusbm ""] Yeah, and you failed to define the word "sludge." |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 6:34pm - MikeOfDecrepitude ""] Remember a time when no one even cared about ISIS? Oh yeah... |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 7:00pm - nekronautloggedin ""] arilliusbm said:Yeah, and you failed to define the word "sludge." I see what you did there. |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 7:04pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] I liked and got bored with Isis before it was cool to like them in the first place. GIVE ME ALL MY SLUDGE POINTS |
| __________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 7:06pm - amorok666 ""] Brutal truth is an excellent black metal band and my favorite thrash metal band is warren g. |
| ______________________________ [Dec 7,2011 7:08pm - hlrie ""] Truly dislike Isis. Last year left into their second song on their last show ever. Thank you for not playing anymore. Isis is also not sludge. Not really. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 7:43pm - The_reverend ""] Introducing blut aus nord |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 8:18pm - arilliusbm ""] Sludge Points increased to 48. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 8:22pm - arilliusbm ""] [img] LOL this guy looks like lamp. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 8:25pm - arilliusbm ""] also, off topic, but this guy is fucking awesome: [img] |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 9:06pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] arilliusbm said:also, off topic, but this guy is fucking awesome: [img] welcome to every 3rd dude I go to school with. DestroyYouAlot said:I liked and got bored with Isis before it was cool to like them in the first place. GIVE ME ALL MY SLUDGE POINTS amorok666 said:Brutal truth is an excellent black metal band and my favorite thrash metal band is warren g. hlrie said:Truly dislike Isis. Last year left into their second song on their last show ever. Thank you for not playing anymore. Isis is also not sludge. Not really. This is me, desperately struggling to give shits. |
| ________________________________ [Dec 7,2011 11:55pm - KEVORD ""] Melvins make Gluey Porch Treatments. Jimmy Bower hears the album and forms Eyehategod. Grief, Iron Monkey, Cavity, etc. Hear Eyehategod and sludge is born. |
| ___________________________________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 12:11am - Big bag of assorted nigger parts ""] Killsug started in the early 80s, did a couple singles before their godly album finally came out in '86. http://youtu.be/crOr7CjxU_g And even Kilslug didn't come around until after the earlier Larry Lifeless / Big Daddy band "The Sickness" - Very Flipper. Which brings us to Flipper. Total disregard for tonality, bad quaalude experience, awesome. http://youtu.be/bhR_Kxr_nR4 When I think of 'sludge,' the brain automatically goes to Kilslug and Flipper, in that order. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 12:21am - nekronaut ""] Flipper is one of my all time favorite bands. SO MUCH HATE FOR THE WORLD. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 12:58am - Lamp nli ""] arilliusbm said:[img] LOL this guy looks like lamp. Get some glasses, chief. |
| ____________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 1:40am - Randy_Marsh ""] largefreakatzero said:Fagster. This. |
| __________________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 2:17am - MikeOfDecrepitude ""] Everything ISIS produced up to Panopticon is untouchable. Killer live performers. Also, nothing "sludge" about them. Class act. |
| ____________________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 2:48am - Woah!_Shut_It_Down! ""] I'm with whoever said a lot of "hipsters" play Sludge because it's pretty easy and takes not-so-much talent, PBR, flannels and a neckbeard to make decent Hard Rock with a little yellin' over it. Apparently that is what Sludge is now as opposed to gritty Cajun fried Doomy stuff like Thou which requires real pissed-offness. I can't blame them, really. I'd like to be in a band someday but what I want to play requires being good, so fuck that noise, I got school'n'shit. Can't be arsed, so I'm gonna rip off Baroness one day. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 8,2011 6:29am - KEVORD ""] Anyone who thinks Isis is anything more than a Neurosis cover band is just fooling themselves. Every band around the time they formed had a Neurosis hard on. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 7:11am - nekronaut ""] Woah!_Shut_It_Down! said:I'm with whoever said a lot of "hipsters" play Sludge because it's pretty easy and takes not-so-much talent, PBR, flannels and a neckbeard to make decent Hard Rock with a little yellin' over it. Apparently that is what Sludge is now as opposed to gritty Cajun fried Doomy stuff like Thou which requires real pissed-offness. I can't blame them, really. I'd like to be in a band someday but what I want to play requires being good, so fuck that noise, I got school'n'shit. Can't be arsed, so I'm gonna rip off Baroness one day. No. That is not what sludge is. That's what people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about think sludge is, for example: YOU. Also, why the fuck would you mention THOU? They are half the reason this thread even exists. Good band, but definitely hipsters. You would NEVER see a band like Sourvein play shows EXCLUSIVELY at all ages venues. Why? because they don't give a fuck enough to go out of their way to cater to ultra pc faggot nerds and whiny bitch kids who can't order a beer from the bar, let alone score any good drugs. Seriously, it's too early for this shit and I can't fall back asleep. I need to start shooting up. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 7:17am - nekronaut ""] FAGGOTRY IS IN THE EYE OF THE DICKHOLDER. |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 8,2011 8:17am - Junkie Police ""] nekronaut said:I need to start shooting up. please don't. youll wind up like garret. |