Ridley Scott's Prometheus[views:50851][posts:203]________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 10:50am - hauptpflucker ""] Visually this was the best live action 3D movie I've seen. Once people began talking the movie left a lot to be desired. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 11:24am - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] MikeofDecrepitude said: It might be erroneous to suggest that queens exclusively come from bursting out of females. For example, in Alien Resurrection, when Ripley tells Larry Purvis, the unwitting test subject, that he had a chestburster inside of him, she ominously states "It's a nasty one". Aren't most drone/warriors all "nasty"? She could be implying that it was a queen. Didn't he have that really humanoid looking alien in him, or am I remembering that incorrectly? |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 11:33am - MikeofDecrepitude ""] Yeah man, the humanoid/xenomorph hybrid was birthed from the queen, and it promptly kills her directly after birth. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 11:37am - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] Son of a bitch. I need to rewatch everything. |
| _________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 11:57am - KEVORD ""] What proof do you have that the engineer who that alien bursted out of wasn't female? |
| _________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 12:01pm - KEVORD ""] [img] This doesn't look that much like a Alien queen when you look at it outside of the movie. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 12:31pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] KEVORD said:What proof do you have that the engineer who that alien bursted out of wasn't female? Who is this particular question directed at? Also; a suggestion that the engineers are androgynous beings? It just gets deeper and deeper... |
| _________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 12:33pm - KEVORD ""] It was directed at whoever made the suggestion that a queen couldn't come out of the engineer at the end. I'm too lazy to look up who said it. |
| ________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 12:54pm - Ripley Scott ""] KEVORD said:It was directed at whoever made the suggestion that a queen couldn't come out of the engineer at the end. I'm too lazy to look up who said it. I didn't say it couldn't - I said EVERY QUEEN we've seen in the franchise came out of a HUMAN FEMALE. However, Engineers MUST have the female DNA or have females hidden away to create a queen, since there were chest bursted engineers. The black liquid turns shit into a xenomorph. It takes a facehugger to implant one in a manner that it bursts out of a chest. Clearly there was a queen here already which caused the earlier outbreak. Also, she c-sectioned the mass in her stomach. Queens are birthed through the chest. Did she take any time to check her chest in the medi-pod? Nope. Did she keep doubling over in pain much like the infected guy with the glasses kept doing in Resurrection before he birthed a xenomorph. Yup. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 12:56pm - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] ^ My first assumption upon seeing that was that it was an alien that they had managed to contain, but then everything in that chamber started melting and I threw that idea out. Since that chamber gives off the vibe of being a quasi-religious area (what with the huge head and whatnot), maybe this is a mural of the antithesis of whatever the head represents? Now that I say that, it could just be the depiction of the end product of that black liquid, but then it starts to look like the engineers are combining their science and religion. That went off topic, sorry. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 1:00pm - Ripley Scott ""] joeyvsdavidlopan said: MikeofDecrepitude said: It might be erroneous to suggest that queens exclusively come from bursting out of females. For example, in Alien Resurrection, when Ripley tells Larry Purvis, the unwitting test subject, that he had a chestburster inside of him, she ominously states "It's a nasty one". Aren't most drone/warriors all "nasty"? She could be implying that it was a queen. Didn't he have that really humanoid looking alien in him, or am I remembering that incorrectly? Incorrect. Larry Purvis was infected with a xeno warrior. The queen in Ressurection was grown inside Ripley's clone and surgically removed from her. The humanoid xeno came out of the queen. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 1:02pm - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] Ripley%20Scott said: I didn't say it couldn't - I said EVERY QUEEN we've seen in the franchise came out of a HUMAN FEMALE. However, Engineers MUST have the female DNA or have females hidden away to create a queen, since there were chest bursted engineers. The black liquid turns shit into a xenomorph. It takes a facehugger to implant one in a manner that it bursts out of a chest. Clearly there was a queen here already which caused the earlier outbreak. Also, she c-sectioned the mass in her stomach. Queens are birthed through the chest. Did she take any time to check her chest in the medi-pod? Nope. Did she keep doubling over in pain much like the infected guy with the glasses kept doing in Resurrection before he birthed a xenomorph. Yup. Still, the reproductive system isn't directly connected to the digestive system, which is how the chestburster gets implanted, so I don't buy that she had a queen within herself. What if, by virtue of Shaw being a female, the uber-facehugger had the necessary DNA inside of itself to implant a queen, at which point the host's gender wouldn't matter? That would explain a queen being born from the engineer at the end of the film. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 1:07pm - Ripley Scott ""] Joey, religious ties in to this film pretty heavily. It would appear that much of our world's religions were based upon the Engineers, and either what they taught us or programmed into us. For example, it could be argued that Christ was an Engineer, and our murdering him was the tipping point that caused the Engineers to target us for extinction via Xenomorph. It would also be sensible that our other forms of worship, including effigies, were taken from them. Why, however, assume the giant head in the chamber was an Engineer? If we were created in the image of the giant engineers, maybe the Engineers were created in the image of giant ... |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 1:25pm - Ripley Scott ""] joeyvsdavidlopan said: Still, the reproductive system isn't directly connected to the digestive system, which is how the chestburster gets implanted, so I don't buy that she had a queen within herself. What if, by virtue of Shaw being a female, the uber-facehugger had the necessary DNA inside of itself to implant a queen, at which point the host's gender wouldn't matter? That's why gender matters. In preceding films, we see Queens only come out of female hosts. What if either the facehugger fetus implanted a xeno before being removed, or like the others in the film the exposure to the black toxin turns Shaw herself into a xeno? With SHAW being female, there's the chance it's a queen. Facehuggers just implant xeno embryos. I think the determination of queen/warrior is by the host. Also, I do not believe the creature at the end is necessarily a queen. I think the big deal was that there was a face hugger big enough to impregnate an Engineer, creating a new type of Alien we haven't seen before - the same type that wiped out the Engineer crew and the original "Space Jockey". It could be a queen, but I don't think that detail is as important as "look - bigger badder xenos for the next movie!" |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 1:33pm - Ripley Scott ""] KEVORD said:[img] This doesn't look that much like a Alien queen when you look at it outside of the movie. Why would there be a picture of a QUEEN in the "xeno warrior transformation juice" holding area? Not saying it is or isn't (that does look like a second set of arms a little). People are bent on the Queen>facehugger>Xenomorph thing, are are missing that the initial black liquid is not meant to work that way. It changes it's host INTO a xeno warrior - note the worms start spitting acid, and the ginger-geologist starts bending, climbing, and jumping like a xeno after getting a faceful of black liquid. The queens, eggs, and facehuggers are all an accidental and unplanned combination of the Xeno and the human female reproductive system (I'm assuming, we don't know yet). It would appear Queens scare Engineers as badly as they do humans. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 1:35pm - Ripley Scott ""] Anyone notice the alien in the mural has a human thumb on it's right hand? |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 2:00pm - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] Ripley%20Scott said:Joey, religious ties in to this film pretty heavily. It would appear that much of our world's religions were based upon the Engineers, and either what they taught us or programmed into us. For example, it could be argued that Christ was an Engineer, and our murdering him was the tipping point that caused the Engineers to target us for extinction via Xenomorph. It would also be sensible that our other forms of worship, including effigies, were taken from them. Why, however, assume the giant head in the chamber was an Engineer? If we were created in the image of the giant engineers, maybe the Engineers were created in the image of giant ... No argument from me here, that all makes sense. My only question is if the giant head is in fact the "deity" that the engineers were created by, what's the significance of it being in the same room with the black liquid containers and the mural of the xenomorph? I don't get why they would store their weaponry in what I'm assuming to be a worship chamber (unless my assumption about the room is entirely wrong, and for all I know it could be). |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 2:08pm - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] Ripley%20Scott said: That's why gender matters. In preceding films, we see Queens only come out of female hosts. What if either the facehugger fetus implanted a xeno before being removed, or like the others in the film the exposure to the black toxin turns Shaw herself into a xeno? With SHAW being female, there's the chance it's a queen. Facehuggers just implant xeno embryos. I think the determination of queen/warrior is by the host. Also, I do not believe the creature at the end is necessarily a queen. I think the big deal was that there was a face hugger big enough to impregnate an Engineer, creating a new type of Alien we haven't seen before - the same type that wiped out the Engineer crew and the original "Space Jockey". It could be a queen, but I don't think that detail is as important as "look - bigger badder xenos for the next movie!" I'm against the "facehugger planting a xeno" theory because it was still all cocooned in its amniotic sac with Shaw had it removed; I'm assuming immaturity of the fetus (and if that fetus also received genetic information from Shaw and Holloway, then it'd be taking cues from human DNA and that would make a little more sense). Shaw becoming a xeno makes sense because she wasn't directly in contact with the black liquid (that I can remember), but having the fetus grow inside of her might mean she's still contaminated, but it's progressing more slowly. That would offer another explanation for her continual pains aside from the aforementioned "just got out of surgery, no rest and recuperation, etc." The final xenomorph bit could also be true, Scott and Lindelof both said that they left plenty of loose ends to tie up if there was ever a sequel (but tied up enough that the film could stand on its own). |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 2:12pm - Ripley Scott ""] Note we saw no equipment to MAKE the viral liquid. That may be a "worship chamber", but if they can create prune juice that turns you into an alien monster, then perhaps it's not too far fetched to guess that they create that juice through some type of worship/ceremony, rather than in a lab? The canisters were lined up in front of the alter. Maybe that's how they get filled? Or perhaps it's a test chamber where Engineers were sacrificed to the fluid to test it? Or even further, perhaps it was a "birthing chamber" for creatures infected with the xeno liquid, and the giant statue and murals were all part of trying to subjugate the creatures to the Engineers? If they wanted US to think they're gods, maybe they wanted the xenos to think so too? |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 2:29pm - Ripley Scott ""] Earlier someone noted the xenomorph mural might have been the antithesis of the giant head: Hmm. Here we are on earth, with a religion that says we were created by got, but we each have an evil demon or satan inside us, with the meaning of life being us transcending past this inner evil to become perfect. And here it turns out we were created by Engineers, in their own image. But yet each and every one of us, inside our DNA, contains a demon Xenomorph. So what's next? Well the bible speaks of apocalypse, where the gods and angels descend from heaven to destroy the demons among us. PROMETHEUS 2 - BATTLE FOR EARTH. Engineers vs Engineer-Super-xenos on earth. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 2:46pm - MikeofDecrepitude ""] Ripley%20Scott said: Also, she c-sectioned the mass in her stomach. Queens are birthed through the chest. Did she take any time to check her chest in the medi-pod? Nope. Let us also remember that queens and warriors are both conceived when a facehugger attaches itself to a host's face and inserts a tube down its throat to plant its embryo inside the chest area. Shaw was never violated by a facehugger. The only being that was, in the entire movie, was an engineer and look at what resulted. A xenomorph birthed and quite possibly a queen, at that. It's worth noting that Millburn got face violated as well, but that was a hammerpede, which, while probably a relative to the creature that came out of Shaw; doesn't seem to produce the same results (i.e. implanting xenomorph embryo's into a host). |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 3:15pm - Ripley Scott ""] MikeofDecrepitude said: Ripley%20Scott said: Also, she c-sectioned the mass in her stomach. Queens are birthed through the chest. Did she take any time to check her chest in the medi-pod? Nope. Let us also remember that queens and warriors are both conceived when a facehugger attaches itself to a host's face and inserts a tube down its throat to plant its embryo inside the chest area. Shaw was never violated by a facehugger. The only being that was, in the entire movie, was an engineer and look at what resulted. A xenomorph birthed and quite possibly a queen, at that. It's worth noting that Millburn got face violated as well, but that was a hammerpede, which, while probably a relative to the creature that came out of Shaw; doesn't seem to produce the same results (i.e. implanting xenomorph embryo's into a host). You're just not getting it - the black liquid has nothing to do with the way we're used to seeing xenomorphs produced. Was the thing that came out of Shaw the facehuggers we all know? The black liquid transforms human DNA into a xenomorph. That's why ginger-geologist-hookah guy was walking like a crab, jumping 20 feet in the air, and crawling on the walls. It's what started happening to Holloway. While the xenomorphs do not have a reproductive system, holloway fucked as his DNA was transforming. This created the giant facehugger, the reproductive parasitic form of a xenomorph. All that is well and good, and explains the giant face hugger reproducing inside the Engineer, and creating an alien. Also explains the very root of how the xenomorphs got out of control - they over-rided their biologically set limits and mutated using their human hosts DNA against them. The whole idea is viral warfare - xenomorph was meant to be an infection that wiped us out. Instead, it turned against it's Engineer masters. Facehuggers were not intended. Queens were not intended. So removing the accidental pregnancy, Shaw has still been exposed to the black liquid, in some small amount. We don't know the effects, everyone infected has been killed too quickly. For all we know it might cause a queen to grow out of her rectum. Stop going back to the facehugger-xenomorph cycle each time. It's irrelevant here. Facehuggers don't typically come out of vaginas, they're laid by a queen and hatched. Maybe SHAW IS THE QUEEN. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 3:17pm - Ripley Scott ""] Ooh, shit, I admit - that JUST dawned on me SHAW IS THE QUEEN |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 3:19pm - Ripley Scott ""] Yes, it all makes sense now. She "laid" a facesucker. It was birthed from HER egg. PROMETHEUS 2 will have another crew finding a crashed ship and fighting off aliens, only to find the queen at the end and realize it's none other than a grossly mutated and fucked up SHAW, onboard her stolen Engineer ship. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 3:26pm - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] Again, with the slow nature of her possible infection, that would make sense. Everybody else directly exposed to black liquid was killed off within 24 hours. Her in a different ship would explain a cargo bay full of eggs and an infected Engineer (who could've come out of stasis to discover the eggs, get impregnated, and then try to fire off a distress signal, during which his chestburster popped out). That's bypassing a sequel and running right into Alien, however, so I'm sure we're missing a piece of the puzzle. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 4:06pm - Ripley Scott ""] I'm guessing if there's more ships, there's more black liquid. If the small facehugger eggs were laid by Shaw, where is the black liquid cargo of the ship? Where is David? Who woke the Jockey? How was he infected? That's the piece we're missing. The eggs in Alien spawn puny little face-huggers. Great to infect humans, but an Engineer? No way one of those things created a xeno that could rip through an Engineer and it's suit. So we're left with a double question - if the small eggs in Alien are assumed to be a product of a mutated Shaw's reproductive system, -What infected all those dead giant Engineers 2000 years ago? Did they kill off all their women to stop the outbreak, and that's why they're all males? Again, each queen in the franchise came out of a human female. Engineers share our DNA, shouldn't they have males and females? We can assume there's no women around because the Engineers are soldiers on a military base, but what if that's not why? Maybe they keep women off the base to avoid outbreak and creating a queen? -What infected the dead Space Jockey, as again it is much to large to have been infected by those face-sucker eggs onboard his ship? That's our next movie. How we get from her leaving in the ship to giant aliens hatching out of Engineers, and little aliens hatching out of humans. How the Engineers were infected. Where their females are. Where the black fluid in the cargo of the crashed Engineer ship from Alien 1 went, and what other kind of monstrous shit it may have created. Remember, at this point we're 30 years from Alien. I don't think the next movie is going to have much, at all, to do with the crashed ship or what happens to Shaw. For that to work we need a whole crew full of new victims, and there were no human corpses around when Ripley finds the Derelict. Instead, I'm betting we'll find David, or Shaw's log entry, or similar which will fill in the gaps regarding the mutated smaller facehugger cargo and what happened to the derelict ship. Maybe a crew further in the future is sent by Weyland Industries to complete Shaw's mission to find the Engineers? After all, she left a distress signal saying she was headed there - once we realize Weyland is aware of the planet we can assume that within the next 30 years they'd have picked up that distress warning she left there. So we'll get a new crew, on a new mission, that encounter the big bad Engineer-Xenos, and perhaps in the process find David or logs filling in the gaps of what happened to Shaw. In addition we've got earthly questions: Weyland KNEW about this moon, they sent the mission. Weyland still exists into the future. So in the 30 years between Prometheus and Alien, I'm sure at some point they send out a mission to find what happened to their mission to that moon. It can also be assumed that mission also never returned, or there would be a lot more answers by the time Ripley's crew encountered the Derelict. That mission, I'm speculating, will be the next movie. NOT Shaw. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 4:14pm - trioxin245 ""] Movie was OK. Plot felt rushed and character developement was borderline non-existent. Great visuals. I didnt find it anywhere near as profound or suspenseful as I expected it to be. |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 4:49pm - chernobyl ""] trioxin245 said:Movie was OK. Plot felt rushed and character developement was borderline non-existent. Great visuals. I didnt find it anywhere near as profound or suspenseful as I expected it to be. Oh, you're one of THOSE... I don't feel like they were trying develop the characters too much.. |
| _________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 5:15pm - haupty ""] trioxin245 said:Movie was OK. Plot felt rushed and character developement was borderline non-existent. Great visuals. I didnt find it anywhere near as profound or suspenseful as I expected it to be. exactly |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 5:16pm - trioxin_245 ""] asian guy was useless, charlize theron was useless, red head was totally unconvincing, and the 24 year old GQ model they casted as a scientist who DISCOVERS ALIEN LIFE and is so unimpressed simply because it's no longer alive that he just goes and gets drunk and is basically like 'fuck it lets go home' was ridiculously unconvincing. I liked the android and the main character was well-developed, albeit a bit generic. Also, what made them think the cave drawings were an invitation? There was essentially NO backstory or explanation as to what made them think they would find their creators there, other than an overused plot device of a dream sequence in which the protagonist says 'I don't know but I choose to believe.' Either way it was a good movie and I'm looking forward to the second one, I just hope they do a better job with the casting and plot pace and development. |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 5:18pm - trioxin_245 ""] Also, the 'suspenseful' parts where they tried to build up to death sequences/etc were way too predictable. Like who didn't see from a mile away that the worm was going to attack that guy? Why even bother with the build up when everyone in the audience already knows what's going to happen? |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 5:20pm - trioxin_245 ""] My biggest gripe was that the creepy siren-like sound from the trailer was not present at all during the movie. I LOVE THAT SOUND |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 5:28pm - trioxin_245 ""] Oh and having them run in the same direction as the rolling space ship instead of just off to the sides where they wouldn't be hit was basically akin to having the big-breasted woman pursued by slow-walking-knife-wielder tripping on nothing so knife-wielder has a chance to catch up and kill her. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 10:58pm - Fake RIPLEY ""] I like basketball. I hate Winona Ryder. |
| _________________________________ [Jun 10,2012 11:09pm - Burnsy ""] trioxin_245 said:Oh and having them run in the same direction as the rolling space ship instead of just off to the sides where they wouldn't be hit was basically akin to having the big-breasted woman pursued by slow-walking-knife-wielder tripping on nothing so knife-wielder has a chance to catch up and kill her. This. I was thinking if Shaw was able to roll out of the way, why the fuck were they running in the direction the shit was rolling. I enjoyed the movie though. Also was disappointed that there was no obnoxious siren sound. =( |
| ________________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 12:00am - Ripley Scott ""] Burnsy said: This. I was thinking if Shaw was able to roll out of the way, why the fuck were they running in the direction the shit was rolling. Having been in a theater with huge subwoofers, I did not miss the shrapnel raining down and exploding on either side of the crashing ship like you two did. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 12:01am - trioxin_245 ""] Fake%20RIPLEY said:I like basketball. I hate Winona Ryder. :LOL::LOL: |
| _________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 12:05am - Burnsy ""] Yeah I saw it at some shitty theater in Bridgewater. Aril was outside ranting about how only silent films are real. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 12:54am - trioxin_245 ""] Burnsy said:Aril was outside ranting about how only reading pictographs scratched into mastodon hide is real. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 12:55am - trioxin_245 ""] I saw the shrapnel, but I'm 99% sure I'd rather face possible death by shrapnel than certain death by rolling spaceship. Do wish I saw the imax 3D one though :C |
| _______________________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 1:38am - Movie Theater Police ""] Burnsy said:Yeah I saw it at some shitty theater in EAST Bridgewater. Aril was outside ranting about how only silent films are real. Fixed. |
| ________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 7:25am - Burnsy ""] HOW DID YOU KNOW?!! |
| _________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 9:36am - MikeOv ""] The black liquid is actually the same as the Black Oil from the X-Files. Mystery solved. |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 10:25am - posbleak ""] Movie was kind of dumb but very pretty, in the end I was glad that I shelled out for the 3D. The c-section scene was pretty boss and the setting looked great. I'm not going to spend too much time thinking about how it ties into Alien because that's going to fall apart right away. Weyland and his nerdy geologist reminded me of Hammond and Malcolm from Jurassic Park |
| _____________________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 10:31am - MASTERS OF HORROR ""] MOVIE SUCKED. ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. OVERHYPED. |
| __________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 10:54am - MikeOv ""] I liked the movie, saw it twice in fact. There's always going to be shit to bitch and nitpick about, but overall I was entertained and it's fun being able to discuss the different possibilities and meanings behind certain things in the film. I'm convinced that the engineer at the beginning was not expecting that outcome after he drank the liquid. Was he a religious sacrifice? A prisoner? He was clearly being watched in the distance by that ship. I love the movie for this scene alone. Maybe it's just me but the opening sequence made me feel as if I was watching a Tool video. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 11:25am - joeyvsdavidlopan ""] MikeOv said:Maybe it's just me but the opening sequence made me feel as if I was watching a Tool video.. That was my first thought once he took the robe off. That whole opening was gorgeous. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 11:31am - trioxin_245 ""] MikeOv said: I'm convinced that the engineer at the beginning was not expecting that outcome after he drank the liquid. Was he a religious sacrifice? A prisoner? From all that I have read and gathered of what Ridley Scott read, he was 100% aware of what he was doing, he was sacrificing himself to create life. There is an underlying theme of self-sacrifice for others to live VS sacrifice-others so you can live (see: Prometheus myth, Prometheus the life-giver sacrifices himself so that humanity can exist.) I read that the black goo reacts differently based on intentions/etc; that is, when the Engineers use it, coming from the pure place they come from and willing to sacrifice themselves for the sake of others, it creates life, but when the goo reaches the imperfect human beings, it takes their selfishness and mutates in a negative way. edit: basically, he intentionally sacrifices himself, breaking himself into dna, the building blocks of life, and doing so into water, the source of all life. HE IS THE WELLSPRING FROM WHICH WE FLOW |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 11:36am - trioxin_245 ""] I didn't word that very well, but you get the point. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 11,2012 11:39am - Lvl 36 Wizard ""] I NEED TOPAZ |