So...why are you guys still paying for gas?[views:13793][posts:72]______________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:27pm - HailAtWork ""] Repost... <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/Alacardian/NWO/72.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a> The original May 15th gas protest was a start, but lacked a real solution. People took it one step further. Permanently boycotting Exxon Mobile is an excellent idea and will actually do some damage where damage needs to be done. But it's still a patch over the bleeding sore that is draining our country of it's life blood. We need true alternatives. They are already here and are time tested. Are you ready to be free? Here's the revolution, join it. 1. Bio-Diesel: Rudolph diesel made the diesel engine to run off of peanut oil so that the farmers could grow their own fuel. During the petro explosion of the 30's when they had so much gas they didn't know what to do with it they made diesel from petro by-products. Diesel engines are fully functional with bio-fuel and get better mileage and have drastically reduced emissions. It's using a lubricant as fuel so the engine lasts longer. It's better all the way around. Also your using a by-product of restaurants so there's an endless supply of WASTE veggie oil. The most productive land usage and output for oil is hemp oil which produces 350+ gallons of oil PER ACRE PER YEAR. Bio-diesel requires very little modification to your car. Although you must have a diesel engine and I believe that new models (post 02'?) won't work. Something to do with the newer engines. Bio-Diesel 101 <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGptWo6elAE"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGptWo6elAE" /> </object> 2. Bio-Mass Ethanol There is already ethanol in production and in use. Race cars have been using ethanol for years and they work exceptionally well. Gas in California is already blended with ethanol and they are already making cars that support E85(85% Ethanol). They almost always talk about corn ethanol, which to my understanding is the worst way to go. For one your using a food supply. Sugar cane ethanol produces 8 times more ethanol. Also ethanol can be made from the billions of tons of Ag waste each year. You can grow prairie grass, switch grass, that grows around 14 feet in one year to make ethanol. Brazil decided under a dictator in the 80's that they had to get off of foreign oil dependence and they did in 20 years. Almost all of their cars are flex fuel hybrids and tribrids. <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/tnYmmqrZB6E"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tnYmmqrZB6E" /> </object> 3. Air People have been attempting and designing a car that runs off of air for decades. Now it's here. It's much the same as a pneumatic drill in that it uses air to push a piston. Simple dimple. Make a light car and then power it with compressed air. The only pollution is that of compressing the air which can be done with solar panels at home or a variety of other ways. This is the technology we have been waiting for for our whole lives. Much of inflation comes from fuel prices. Imagine how to world will change when we can move around for free with now guilt. <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/QmqpGZv0YT4"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QmqpGZv0YT4" /> </object> ARE YOU READY FOR FREEDOM??? 4.Water! You can run *any* gasoline car off of water. Water is MUCH more powerful than gasoline. With simple low volt DC electrolysis you can split H20 into HHO and burn it cleanly. Exhaust=water+heat. FREE ENERGY FOREVER. I always used to wonder when I was a child why the oceans didn't blow up, they are made of 2 of the most flammable things. Now we know how to unlock that power. People have been doing this since the early 60's. FREEDOM IS WITHIN REACH <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/hzJZJjo9MNA"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hzJZJjo9MNA" /> </object> <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/_j7d-FJ7TQk"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_j7d-FJ7TQk" /> </object> <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/KyNNIDAp5dM"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KyNNIDAp5dM" /> </object> <object enableJSURL="false" enableHREF="false" saveEmbedTags="true" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="never" allownetworking="internal" height="350" width="425" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/YIgOn1kRw5s"> <param name="allowScriptAccess" value="never" /> <param name="allowNetworking" value="internal" /> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YIgOn1kRw5s" /> </object> |
| ______________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:29pm - HailAtWork ""] Rev, why the hell can't I embed youtube videos? [img] |
| ___________________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:30pm - DaveFromTheGrave ""] and then you woke up! |
| ________________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:34pm - y_ddraig_goch ""] we'll never let up off of fossil fuels. We only think about the now and not the future. In order for any of those fuels to work it would require billions of dollars for everyone, from big corporations to civilians |
| _______________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:36pm - the_reverend ""] cause you don't know how to do it... if I were allow people to just embed things, all hell would break loose. [YOUTUBE= and then the youtube number and then a ] that does it. |
| __________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:38pm - sxealex ""] yea and you probably steal your unencrypted cookies with flash. |
| _________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:39pm - INFECT ""] you forgot to mention bicycles and public transportation every idiot does not need to own a car |
| ______________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:44pm - HailAtWork ""] true, but this is for the idiots who do have cars |
| _______________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:46pm - hungtableed ""] We pay for gas because we actually have lives and have to be places and right now, that's our only option - unless you want to buy one of them bio-hazard-battery run hybrids....that still need gas.... Sorry we are not yet transient-anti-capitalistic hippies like we apparently should be. |
| ______________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:55pm - HailAtWork ""] It's not your only option...kinda thought this post explained that... |
| ________________________________________ [May 11,2007 12:58pm - Iluvufreebeer ""] hungtableed said:We pay for gas because we actually have lives and have to be places and right now, that's our only option - unless you want to buy one of them bio-hazard-battery run hybrids....that still need gas.... Sorry we are not yet transient-anti-capitalistic hippies like we apparently should be. I am pretty sure everyone reading this has a life. To my knowledge, it's rather impossible for your brain to process written word when you are dead. But who am I? I'm just intelligent. Cars are not necessary . They were not necessary to get from Point A to Point B 200 years ago. What changes that fact now? You perceive that you need a car, and so you go buy one. Meanwhile those of us who are financially progressive do not spend thousands of dollars a year on steel coffins, and we've come to realize we can get from Point A to Point B using a wonderful evolutionary gift called: legs. If I really needed to get somewhere far, I can take the bus, and manage to save a lot more money than you will in your car that you waste thousands of dollars on annually. Do not bother debating me on this subject. I'm too close minded to allow your argument to have any sway. Just go continue being lazy. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:03pm - xanonymousx ""] [img] bio-diesel bennyhillifier biomass bennyhillifier air bennyhillifier water bennyhillifier bennyhillifier bennyhillifier bennyhillifier |
| ______________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:22pm - hungtableed ""] Iluvufreebeer said: Cars are not necessary . They were not necessary to get from Point A to Point B 200 years ago. What changes that fact now? You perceive that you need a car, and so you go buy one. Meanwhile those of us who are financially progressive do not spend thousands of dollars a year on steel coffins, and we've come to realize we can get from Point A to Point B using a wonderful evolutionary gift called: legs. If I really needed to get somewhere far, I can take the bus, and manage to save a lot more money than you will in your car that you waste thousands of dollars on annually. Do not bother debating me on this subject. I'm too close minded to allow your argument to have any sway. Just go continue being lazy. hahahaha, that's some funny shit. I guess you're right, I'm a lazy fuck. The next time my band plays a show I'm gonna bust out the ol' radio flyer red cart and pile my amp stack up and start fucking hoofin' it. I guess that goes for the Rev too, are you planning on hitting any shows in MA this weekend? Better start walkin. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:27pm - xanonymousx ""] i did my research paper on alternative fuels and got an a on it. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:29pm - sacreligion ""] i love how almost everyone in the american populous ignores the fact that many people and companies are making great strides towards cleaner fuels |
| __________________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:30pm - DaveFromTheGrave ""] I did my research paper on dogshit, but then my dog ate it. |
| _____________________________ [May 11,2007 1:41pm - mOe ""] hungtableed said:Iluvufreebeer said: Cars are not necessary . They were not necessary to get from Point A to Point B 200 years ago. What changes that fact now? You perceive that you need a car, and so you go buy one. Meanwhile those of us who are financially progressive do not spend thousands of dollars a year on steel coffins, and we've come to realize we can get from Point A to Point B using a wonderful evolutionary gift called: legs. If I really needed to get somewhere far, I can take the bus, and manage to save a lot more money than you will in your car that you waste thousands of dollars on annually. Do not bother debating me on this subject. I'm too close minded to allow your argument to have any sway. Just go continue being lazy. hahahaha, that's some funny shit. I guess you're right, I'm a lazy fuck. The next time my band plays a show I'm gonna bust out the ol' radio flyer red cart and pile my amp stack up and start fucking hoofin' it. I guess that goes for the Rev too, are you planning on hitting any shows in MA this weekend? Better start walkin. I actually agree with this fella. I NEED my car. I play drums in two bands. My family and friends all live at least 100 miles from me. I could catch a bus to boston/Worcester/NH to visit all my friends, but that could cost be about 30-40 bucks round trip every time i wanted to see them; about how much i'd spend on gas. I could catch a bus to NJ/NY to see my family but that would cost me 70 bucks round trip...about how much i spend on gas. I work 15 miles from my house. Catching a bus there would make my commute an awesme 2 hours long. And as much as I'd like to spend 4 hours a day on average on a public bus with the best Western Ma has to offer, i'm all set. Not everyone lives in a place where Public transportation will get you everywhere you need or want to go. Cities are packed with people and expensive to live in. So, i can live in a place where the rent is way cheaper have a car and drive everywhere at and appease my own comfort and personal freedom. Or i can pay 800-1200 bucks rent in some city and spend money daily on cabs and overcrowded buses and trains. Choose your poison and shut the fuck up about it. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:41pm - xanonymousx ""] DaveFromTheGrave said:I did my research paper on dogshit, but then my dog ate it. hahaahahaha:bow: |
| __________________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:45pm - DaveFromTheGrave ""] sacreligion said:i love how almost everyone in the american populous ignores the fact that many people and companies are making great strides towards cleaner fuels price of gas before people and companies were making great strides towards cleaner fuels: $2.05/gallon price of gas now that people and companies are making great strides towards cleaner fuels: $3.15/gallon |
| ______________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:46pm - hungtableed ""] mOe said: Not everyone lives in a place where Public transportation will get you everywhere you need or want to go. Bingo, mOe. |
| _________________________________________ [May 11,2007 1:53pm - metal_church101 ""] mOe said: I actually agree with this fella. I NEED my car. I play drums in two bands. My family and friends all live at least 100 miles from me. I could catch a bus to boston/Worcester/NH to visit all my friends, but that could cost be about 30-40 bucks round trip every time i wanted to see them; about how much i'd spend on gas. I could catch a bus to NJ/NY to see my family but that would cost me 70 bucks round trip...about how much i spend on gas. I work 15 miles from my house. Catching a bus there would make my commute an awesme 2 hours long. And as much as I'd like to spend 4 hours a day on average on a public bus with the best Western Ma has to offer, i'm all set. Not everyone lives in a place where Public transportation will get you everywhere you need or want to go. Cities are packed with people and expensive to live in. So, i can live in a place where the rent is way cheaper have a car and drive everywhere at and appease my own comfort and personal freedom. Or i can pay 800-1200 bucks rent in some city and spend money daily on cabs and overcrowded buses and trains. Choose your poison and shut the fuck up about it. Well put. :HAMMAH: |
| _____________________________ [May 11,2007 2:15pm - mOe ""] its like, come on ya know. They make people who drive gasoline fueled cars look like assholes...like we're part of the problem or something. Like, we could EASILY just take public transportation, get rid of our cars, or spend thousands getting our cars switched over to a different engine (biodiesel, etc) who's fuel sources aren't very well known to the general public (not YET, at least). BUT, i guess we're just lazy douchebags who WANT to pay this much for gas. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 2:21pm - HailAtWork ""] DaveFromTheGrave said:sacreligion said:i love how almost everyone in the american populous ignores the fact that many people and companies are making great strides towards cleaner fuels price of gas before people and companies were making great strides towards cleaner fuels: $2.05/gallon price of gas now that people and companies are making great strides towards cleaner fuels: $3.15/gallon Great strides aren't the problem, the technology to get rid of gas completely has been around for over 40 years, the information is surpessed in favor of record oil profits. Why wait around for someone else to solve your energy problems? I converted my car and I'm always broke, so I donno what everyone else's excuse is...haven't had to buy any fuel in over a month and won't give a fuck when gas is $4/gallon because I'm never using it again. Everyone here could stop giving money to these terrorists if they put a little effort in. |
| ____________________________________ [May 11,2007 2:30pm - immortal13 ""] The problem with the May 15 protest thingy was the fact that on May 16 when everyone started pumping again, the prices would jack right back up again. |
| _____________________________ [May 11,2007 2:34pm - mOe ""] how did you convert your car and how much did it cost |
| _________________________________________ [May 11,2007 2:34pm - CaptainCleanoff ""] Because it makes my truck go. GIGGITY GIGGITY GIGGITY!!! ALRIIIGHT!!! |
| _____________________________________________ [May 11,2007 2:47pm - INFECT sli sli sli ""] hungtableed said:mOe said: Not everyone lives in a place where Public transportation will get you everywhere you need or want to go. Bingo, mOe. thats part of the problem, there are plenty of places that have sophisticated, clean, cheap public transportation systems with fairly comprehensive service areas, but our society is so car-centric that there is no funding for that sort of thing here. Obviously, some people need cars, i play drums too, and when i have to move my shit to a show, ill sure as hell drive my station wagon (which, being a volvo and a stickshift actually gets pretty good mileage BTW) however, i couldnt fathom driving my car to school, work, and random local errands every day at easy biking/walking distances, yet thats what most people do. bitch all you want, that oils not gonna get any cheaper, and its not going to last forever either. sooner or later we're either going to have to make a transition to alternative fuels and transportation paradigms or experience some major crisises |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 2:47pm - HailAtWork ""] mOe said:how did you convert your car and how much did it cost I bought it from a guy who had already partially converted it, I think he's still converting old Mercedes Benz diesels and selling them for less than $1,500 if anyone is interested. It was only the 2nd or 3rd one he'd done so it needed a bit of extra work, I put in a Hotfox tank warmer, ($200), heated lines, (you can make your own for less than $30-40) and injector heaters ($18, again you can easily make your own for less). It already came with an extra tank in the trunk, relay switches (for switching between fuel systems) and a filter heater...that's pretty much all you need to tell oil companies to fuck themselves. Basically you add another fuel system and make sure it stays hot all the time. |
| _____________________________ [May 11,2007 2:50pm - mOe ""] are you using a payment plan or did you give him the dough upfront? |
| _________________________________________ [May 11,2007 2:59pm - metal_church101 ""] Who else could convert engines upfront professional enough for us to drive away and not have to modify it afterwards. Also, what stations do you get the alternative fuels at? I've never seen any. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:00pm - HailAtWork ""] I gave the dude about $600 as a deposit and paid the rest within a week or so...I'd been planning on doing this for about 3 years and my truck died last fall, so it was the right time..my boss paid for the tank heater and took it out of my pay gradually, I still owe my mechanic a bit since I didn't want to screw up installing the heater and new lines myself. Injecter heaters I put on myself in about 10 minutes, easy. My next project will hopefully be an s10 Blazer 4x4 like I had, but with a Benz diesel engine and I'll convert using the original tank for veggie oil and a 6 gallon marine tank for the diesel to start up and shut down. |
| ______________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:02pm - GoatCatalyst ""] Nothing a little class war won't solve. Start offing CEO's and high-ranking beaurocrats and commence the redistribution of wealth. (Where's CTBorderpatrol to help me out on this one?) |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:06pm - HailAtWork ""] metal_church101 said:Who else could convert engines upfront professional enough for us to drive away and not have to modify it afterwards. Also, what stations do you get the alternative fuels at? I've never seen any. My mechanic in Milford if you've got the parts and about a grand for labor...if you need everything done. You don't need a fuel station, get the used oil for free at your local chinese food place and you filter it yourself in your garage...although there are a few biodiesel filling stations and veggie oil co-ops in CA...I might start one myself since I've got more fuel than I know what to do with right now. |
| _________________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:09pm - metal_church101 ""] HailAtWork, how much are replacement parts? How do those compare to what you are paying for fuel price wise? Yeah, we pay $3 a gallon, but replacement alternators, starters, .... are cheaper than those on other vehicles using different fuels. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:18pm - HailAtWork ""] You don't have to use a Benz, as long as it's a diesel you're good to go, it could be a huge 80's GMC pickup truck or a little VW rabbit as long as it's a diesel. Benz parts aren't cheap, but the engines last forever, mine has over 350,000/mi and it's still purrs. As far as replacement conversion parts, donno, nothing has broken yet. I pay about $3-4 for a filter I can reuse to filter through several tanks of fuel so money-wise it fucking rocks...all I pay for are filters, fuel is otherwise free. |
| _____________________________ [May 11,2007 3:24pm - mOe ""] i wouldnt mind trying this as a project sometime in the future but I just cant afford anything like this right now. My vehicle isnt Diesel so i'd need money to buy a diesel vehicle and to get/do everything else. Plus I have no idea what i'm doing in terms of the science of it all. |
| __________________________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:31pm - SCIENCE??? WHATS THAT? ""] HailAtWork said: 4.Water! You can run *any* gasoline car off of water. Water is MUCH more powerful than gasoline. With simple low volt DC electrolysis you can split H20 into HHO and burn it cleanly. Exhaust=water+heat. FREE ENERGY FOREVER. I always used to wonder when I was a child why the oceans didn't blow up, they are made of 2 of the most flammable things. Now we know how to unlock that power. People have been doing this since the early 60's. FREEDOM IS WITHIN REACH If this isn't proof that hippies are retarded, I don't know what is. You obviously are retarded if you... a) believe in anyway that water is "FREE ENERGY." Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars work by combining oxygen (from the air) and hydrogen (mostly now being harvested from natural gas) to get water which yields electricity to run your car. However natural gas isn't especially abundant to start switching over most cars to use this. So the hippies' half baked proposal is to get the hydrogen from water, which is the opposite process that occurs in the fuel cell. However the amount of the energy it takes to split the hydrogen and oxygen from water is 4 TIMES MORE THAN THE ENGERY YOU GAIN IN THE FUCKING FUEL CELL. And last time I check DC eletricity in my home WASN'T FUCKING FREE. You obviously are retarded if you... b) believe most cars can run on ethanol/E85. With today's technology it takes MORE engery to produce and refine the ethanol from corn syrup than you can use in your car. So you're pretty much fucking over the environment using E85. However you with using pure sugar/sugar cane, you do get a more efficient engery output, but to get sugar in the USA is insanely expensive (you need a tropical climate to grow it). I don't think Americans are ready to be paying $10+ for a gallon of E85 (which is a bit less efficient than 1 gallon of gas - ethanol burns much quicker than gas). You obviously are retarded if you... c) air is a power source. Using energy to compress the air and then using to propel your car is probably the least efficient use. The only real solutions is electric cars. But all batteries kind of suck. They all eventually lose efficiency and continually hold less and less electricity. However every few years better and more efficient batteries come out. Also we do not currently have the electrical infrastructure to handle coverting every car to electric. We simply do not have enough electricity to support this. We could cover good portions of the desert in solar panels, but hippies tend to have a hang up on covering up 1/3 of the country and taking away desert animals' habitats. And solar panel technology is continuously improving as more efficient panels are being produced every few years. So there's no point in starting to cover everything in solar panels now if in the next 10 years they'll be all be 10 times less efficient. The only real solution in the near future is to build more and advance the technology in nuclear power plants. Unfortunately hippies as well as a lot of normal people are afraid of nuclear anything and people particularly hate nuclear waste. So basically we're fucked because hippies don't like science. But we're pretty much waiting for nuclear technology (using Thorium-232, breeder reactors, etc), solar panel, and battery technology to get better (or for cold fusion) to solve our energy crisis. And if hippies are particularly concerned about saving energy, the best way to accomplish is to not use any energy at all and just kill yourself. |
| _______________________________________ [May 11,2007 3:37pm - y_ddraig_goch ""] I live in Nashua, and by NH standards we have excellent public transit. Think about a city the size of worcester and give it only five buses half the length of T buses, let them only run to each spot every hour, instead of every ten minutes like they do in Mass. Oh yeah and forget about the train or subway. it took me two hours taking the bus to get home from the mall when I was younger, now in my car it takes me about 8 minutes tops. don't get me wrong, im all for public transit. I think every city should have the subway or a train running to it, and every city should have intercity buses too. |
| _________________________________________________ [May 11,2007 5:02pm - SCIENCE??? WHATS THAT? ""] HailAtWork said: 2. Bio-Mass Ethanol There is already ethanol in production and in use. Race cars have been using ethanol for years and they work exceptionally well. Gas in California is already blended with ethanol and they are already making cars that support E85(85% Ethanol). They almost always talk about corn ethanol, which to my understanding is the worst way to go. For one your using a food supply. Sugar cane ethanol produces 8 times more ethanol. Also ethanol can be made from the billions of tons of Ag waste each year. You can grow prairie grass, switch grass, that grows around 14 feet in one year to make ethanol. Brazil decided under a dictator in the 80's that they had to get off of foreign oil dependence and they did in 20 years. Almost all of their cars are flex fuel hybrids and tribrids. Okay, I just read this... you're proposing to get ethanol from GRASS? How much fucking glucose is in grass? Almost none? Do you know how difficult/inefficient it would to just fucking ferment GRASS? You can actually go home and try it yourself. You're not getting much ethanol out of grass thats for sure and definitely not enough to run a car on. You can do this much easier with corn/corn syrup since it obvoiusly has a lot of glucose. Brazil can support this infrastruction of ethanol BECAUSE THEY GROW SUGAR which is pretty much pure glucose. Also this is a great way to increase carbon dioxide levels on the Earth. |
| _________________________________________________ [May 11,2007 5:08pm - SCIENCE??? WHATS THAT? ""] From wiki: "Trials of new crops, such as agricultural residues, wood wastes, and various grasses, show much lower yields using conventional, commercialized processes. These crops are cellulosic rather than starchy, and have fewer accessible sugars for fermentation." |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 7:45pm - HailTheLeaf ""] http://www.frybrid.com/forum/ This has alot of info on using veggie oil and converting your car |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 7:49pm - HailTheLeaf ""] SCIENCE??? WHATS THAT? said:HailAtWork said: 4.Water! You can run *any* gasoline car off of water. Water is MUCH more powerful than gasoline. With simple low volt DC electrolysis you can split H20 into HHO and burn it cleanly. Exhaust=water+heat. FREE ENERGY FOREVER. I always used to wonder when I was a child why the oceans didn't blow up, they are made of 2 of the most flammable things. Now we know how to unlock that power. People have been doing this since the early 60's. FREEDOM IS WITHIN REACH If this isn't proof that hippies are retarded, I don't know what is. You obviously are retarded if you... a) believe in anyway that water is "FREE ENERGY." Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars work by combining oxygen (from the air) and hydrogen (mostly now being harvested from natural gas) to get water which yields electricity to run your car. However natural gas isn't especially abundant to start switching over most cars to use this. So the hippies' half baked proposal is to get the hydrogen from water, which is the opposite process that occurs in the fuel cell. However the amount of the energy it takes to split the hydrogen and oxygen from water is 4 TIMES MORE THAN THE ENGERY YOU GAIN IN THE FUCKING FUEL CELL. And last time I check DC eletricity in my home WASN'T FUCKING FREE. You obviously are retarded if you... b) believe most cars can run on ethanol/E85. With today's technology it takes MORE engery to produce and refine the ethanol from corn syrup than you can use in your car. So you're pretty much fucking over the environment using E85. However you with using pure sugar/sugar cane, you do get a more efficient engery output, but to get sugar in the USA is insanely expensive (you need a tropical climate to grow it). I don't think Americans are ready to be paying $10+ for a gallon of E85 (which is a bit less efficient than 1 gallon of gas - ethanol burns much quicker than gas). You obviously are retarded if you... c) air is a power source. Using energy to compress the air and then using to propel your car is probably the least efficient use. The only real solutions is electric cars. But all batteries kind of suck. They all eventually lose efficiency and continually hold less and less electricity. However every few years better and more efficient batteries come out. Also we do not currently have the electrical infrastructure to handle coverting every car to electric. We simply do not have enough electricity to support this. We could cover good portions of the desert in solar panels, but hippies tend to have a hang up on covering up 1/3 of the country and taking away desert animals' habitats. And solar panel technology is continuously improving as more efficient panels are being produced every few years. So there's no point in starting to cover everything in solar panels now if in the next 10 years they'll be all be 10 times less efficient. The only real solution in the near future is to build more and advance the technology in nuclear power plants. Unfortunately hippies as well as a lot of normal people are afraid of nuclear anything and people particularly hate nuclear waste. So basically we're fucked because hippies don't like science. But we're pretty much waiting for nuclear technology (using Thorium-232, breeder reactors, etc), solar panel, and battery technology to get better (or for cold fusion) to solve our energy crisis. And if hippies are particularly concerned about saving energy, the best way to accomplish is to not use any energy at all and just kill yourself. They're just ideas, some work, others I donno. Brazil has been running cars on ethanol since the 80's so tell them it's not possible. GM made great electric cars in the early 90's, then junked them all so they could sell us Hummers instead, that worked out well for them eh? Fuck nuclear power. |
| _____________________________________ [May 11,2007 9:02pm - xanonymousx ""] did you know every car can be run on ethanol just not the highest grade. |
| _________________________________ [May 11,2007 9:40pm - sxealex ""] im not reading everything but... the water one is harder that the guides suggest. if engines were like aluminum or some thing and ur exaust was stainless steel... it would be plausible. i think an electric car is the answer. u can make electricity way more easily and effeciently. And on a mass scale. that way some big company can buy crazy gadgets and be super clean about it. Plus they should make advancements on the electric motor. its kinda been ignored i think. they could probably make a more electricity effcient electric motor than what is currently available. also if electrolosis is so simple why is that not a major source of energy. why cant u just scoop up the run a motor on it and make electricity with that? something tells me more electricity is required to seperate the hydrogen than the sepereated hydrogen can be used to make. what would be nice is an electric car with solor panels and generator that runs off water. that way your car would always be charging... even from rain storms. |
| ________________________________________ [May 11,2007 9:51pm - Okay. Right.. ""] HailTheLeaf said: Brazil has been running cars on ethanol since the 80's so tell them it's not possible. I just said that Brazil accomplishes this because THEY GROW SUGAR CANE. And they grow a LOT of it. Sugar is the only crop that will yield a positive energy gain. We cannot grow sugar in any mass quantities in this country like they do in Brazil. Notice how Brazil is closer to the equator than we are. They have a more tropical climate than us. They can grow tropical crops like sugar cane. To get any quantity of sugar shipped to the US is VERY expensive. This is the reason we use corn syrup (NOT SUGAR) in our soft drinks. Also you can go figure out on your own the difference of population per square mile in Brazil and here. HailTheLeaf said:GM made great electric cars in the early 90's, then junked them all so they could sell us Hummers instead, that worked out well for them eh? I JUST said that battery technology is continually getting better. The EARLY 90'S (!!!!) large batteries sucked a lot more than they do now. Their max capacity degraded much quicker (not to mention their max capacity were much lower) than the lead-acid, NiCd, nickel metal hydride, lithium ion, and Li-ion polymer batteries we use today. HailTheLeaf said:They're just ideas, some work, others I donno. No. None of these work on a large scale to replace gas, except for maybe using hydrogen as storage of energy if battery technology does not advance. But extracting hydrogen is expensive. Shipping and storing hydrogen is expensive. Biproducts from extracting it from natural gases are very bad. If you are going to use electricity to get hydrogen from water (which will be turned back into water when used in your fuel cell car) is wasting a lot of energy compared to just storing the energy in a battery. You might as well go down to the store, buy 4 bags of coal, light 3 of them on fire and use the last bag to power your car. Using shit like peanut/vegatable oil has the same arguments of E85. We do not have enough land in this country to grow that much energy. Not to mention these are horribly less efficient than using ethanol. * soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced, and * sunflower plants requires 118 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced. Awesome, I bet you love senselessly lighting coal on fire for no gain. HailTheLeaf said: Fuck nuclear power. Why fuck nuclear power? Because you're afraid of something you don't understand it? THAT'S NOT HYPOCRITICAL AT ALL. Because it doesn't releases any greenhouse gases or other air pollutants unlike all your other proposed ideas (while using electricity from coal)? |
| _________________________________ [May 11,2007 9:55pm - sxealex ""] yea what??? fuck nuclear power??? if kept safe it is one of the cleanest powers. isnt like 90 % of the us nuclear now? |
| ________________________________________ [May 11,2007 9:59pm - Okay. Right.. ""] sxealex said:im not reading everything but... the water one is harder that the guides suggest. if engines were like aluminum or some thing and ur exaust was stainless steel... it would be plausible. i think an electric car is the answer. u can make electricity way more easily and effeciently. And on a mass scale. that way some big company can buy crazy gadgets and be super clean about it. Plus they should make advancements on the electric motor. its kinda been ignored i think. they could probably make a more electricity effcient electric motor than what is currently available. also if electrolosis is so simple why is that not a major source of energy. why cant u just scoop up the run a motor on it and make electricity with that? something tells me more electricity is required to seperate the hydrogen than the sepereated hydrogen can be used to make. what would be nice is an electric car with solor panels and generator that runs off water. that way your car would always be charging... even from rain storms. Electrolosis isn't a source of energy... Basically: Water (H2O) + ELECTRICITY -> Hydrogen + Oxygen (This is electrolosis, it takes energy to do this) Hydrogen + Oxygen -> Water + ELECTRICITY (This is where you get electrity for your car except that the ELECTRICTY you get here is 1/4 of the ELECTRICITY to make the Hydrogen.) This process has been known for over 100 years and has been used comercially since the 1960's (flying to the moon - Apollo missions used 3 fuel cells each from UTC from my hometown). But you lose energy when you do this. There is no way to get energy from water. You put energy into it to make hydrogen and get 25% of that energy to move your car. |
| __________________________________ [May 11,2007 10:11pm - sxealex ""] ur missing the point... u need to create electricity on board to convert the h2o to hho. u cant store hydrogen in ur car.... its #1 on the periodic table. [img] |
| _________________________________________ [May 11,2007 10:13pm - Okay. Right.. ""] sxealex said:yea what??? fuck nuclear power??? if kept safe it is one of the cleanest powers. isnt like 90 % of the us nuclear now? "only 14 percent of our electric power is generated by nuclear technology" http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25153 |
| _________________________________________ [May 11,2007 10:18pm - Okay. Right.. ""] You can most definitely store hydrogen in a car. All fuel cell cars do this. All spacecraft stores plenty of hydrogen. You can get hydrogen tanks like you can get helium tanks. Mythbusters uses hydrogen tanks all the time. =P The problem is the amount of compression and temperature control if you want to carry around liquid hydrogen. Also the amount of hydrogen you can carry in a tank in your car would yield less energy than the same volume of gas. |