France is awesome[views:2172][posts:12]__________________________________________ [Jan 26,2010 10:28pm - TheRidersofDoom ""] http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-wor...ce-veil27-2010jan27,0,6495055.story First banned in school, now France seeks to ban the burka in public buildings, offices, and public transit! We didn't spend the last 2000 years of having women go from objects to equal to have some backwards ass tradition ruin it again in the name of "cultural acceptance" and anyways, the muslim women of europe applaud this move. |
| __________________________________ [Jan 26,2010 11:47pm - Doomkid ""] Incorrect. It seems (from the articles and interviews I've read) that there are only a small percentage of women who wear a head veil. Those that do say they wear it out of choice, something like 40% are converts too. Its fine for France to try and keep it out of school, they do that to every religious expression so they are evenly expressing their secular values. However, the banning of all public displays of religion is not included in this proposal and therefore is specifically targeting Muslim women. They are currently required to remove face covering at banks and for a couple other identity verifications. In my opinion, there is no need for this law. Its simply a conscious or unconscious attempt by France to deal with its growing Muslim minority. We've been talking about doing similar things with the Mexican flag in the southwestern states and thats just out of fear of one of our growing minorities. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 12:20am - TheRidersofDoom ""] Minorities who don't convert to a nation's culture usually are its downfall, look at rome with its Gauls and Celts, they overran the place and took it down. I'm against the veil, even when the women accept it (like the brainwashed christians in america who where full length dresses and bandannas in their hair) It would be like if I walked around with a ski mask and said it was my religion and that I should be allowed to walk into public buildings with it on. I mean, same thing with not touching women, men who aren't related aren't allowed to touch muslim women unless they are married. Whicch is why it's so hard in the wars over there to frisk muslim women for weapons. |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 12:44am - the_reverend ""] how is this awesome? I want to see as little of the lesser sex as I can. |
| ________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 12:55am - Murph ""] France can only blame itself for getting into this mess in the first place. Their treatment of Algeria and subsequent backtrack and scramble has really caused an odd menage of culture, with a gigantic influx of Algerian Muslims having emigrated to France in the '50s to the present. Of that population, I'm sure plenty are more tame Islamic followers, but, its simple math: more of a given population leads to a greater chance of radicals (who "ruin" it for the rest, even though I think all three of the Abrahamic faiths are fucking retarded). People tend to forget how scared to shit people have been in history of Christian sects due to their brutality. Jews struck fear in their own ways during Roman occupation to the present day. Sure, we live in a modern world, but terrorism is terrorism, whether it's in religious form or not. People also tend to forget that the Qu'ran is an extremely vitriolic book, open to interpretation. As is the Old Testament, and as is much of the New. Unfortunately for its own sake, it tends to be that Muslims and Jews are a bit more schooled in the basic tenets of their faith, whereas Christianity has many gray areas, instilled in a religion that completed mass conversion of populations in a rather small amount of time (when weighed upon the understood span of the human race since the first dawn of dogma), and a greater palatability. Muslims and Jews also have more ties with a sense of culture and race, especially with Judaism’s claim to be an "ethnoreligious" entity (which of course is impossible and limiting) which make them afraid of eradication, and the populace more skeptical of their motives. To be frank, the West is much more timid of the world's Muslims than Jews, so no surprise. People can take all the humanistic and moral value from their Abrahamic faith view, but it is still going to leave an amount of limiting substance written at a particular time, for a particular survival. IT’S MEANT THAT WAY, THAT’S WHY IT EXISTS. My only concern in the complete removal of faith-based materials from the state is the fact that we AS HUMANS lose out on experiencing documents crucial to the evolution of humanity (the Bible, Qu'ran, Tanakh, Talmud...etc). Personally, I think American public schools should offer (not require) classes in understanding such texts in a literary aspect, because they are, after all, HISTORICAL TEXTS. Referencing your argument, are the issues with the Mexican flag in the south about it being flown in government or state buildings, or in personal use? If it is personal use, than I can see the relevance as it is personal expression (like the burka) and since we aren't engaged in any conflicts on the surface with Mexico it would be in bad taste to legislate against, but if not, I agree with the State's rights to remove a flag from state/govn't property...this isn't Mexico, nor any other nation. Is the whole thing fair? Probably not. Muslims and Christians whine all the time about their treatment...what did they really think was gonna happen when their power started to dissolve? In the ever-present need to be relevant, fringe elements go apeshit, and of course they are the ones in the papers making the headlines. OH WELL. |
| __________________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 12:56am - TheRidersofDoom ""] Not to mention Lebanese women are hot as hell, but they don't wear the veil anyways because they're probably the most westernized Arab nation sans Turkey. |
| _________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 1:04am - Doomkid ""] Riders, that one reason why you like having women in your free and open society, its a job that men just can't do. I think in terms of security that it makes sense to check identification and have same-gender searches but there is no need for a ban. Also, agree on the Lebanese hotness. Murph I like your posts but please break up your wall of text. It hurts me. |
| _______________________________ [Jan 27,2010 1:40am - Murph ""] I write my opinions like I craft my music: thick and full of bullshit. |
| _______________________________ [Jan 27,2010 2:09am - Murph ""] I do believe such a law against clothing is going to be really tough to enforce...a Muslim woman would have a good case that if such laws are enacted, Trench coats, large shawls, etc. should also have to be removed, as the issue (although most definitely a slight to Muslims) seems to be legislated around the idea that someone can hide something on their physical person with the aid of loose, draped clothing. The Sarkozy years shall provide plenty of interesting changes. |
| ____________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 11:43am - Ass Hole ""] TheRidersofDoom said:We didn't spend the last 2000 years of having women go from objects to equal to have some backwards ass tradition ruin it again in the name of "cultural acceptance" Highly suspect revisionist history there. |
| __________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 11:54am - Doomkid ""] ^ that |
| _______________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 11:55am - SkinSandwich ""] The French haven't even nailed down hygiene yet. |
| _________________________________ [Jan 27,2010 12:12pm - xmikex ""] Doomkid said:...there are only a small percentage of women who wear a head veil. Those that do say they wear it out of choice [img] Choose to do the dishes....NOW! |