Metal Elitism[views:21735][posts:116]____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 1:52pm - arilliusbm ""] (tl;dr) In my lame attempt to start a Conservationist-type thread, here is a short, but simple social analysis of metal fans. These are nothing but generalizations and you're more than welcome to agree or disagree. I'm not saying I agree with everything I'm typing, but am just throwing out basic examples of people. The point is to discuss the topic of metal elitism in relation to how the metalhead's personality is, or how long they've been into metal. While most would assume that it DOESN'T really matter, it is and always has been a prevalent topic in metal. Remember, metal is a subculture, and it has slowly been meshing into mainstream more and more as years pass. There are three kinds of people that listen to metal. Two of the three are real fans and have every right to enjoy the music. The other one... well, they can listen to the music but are in it for social reasons. Person number one: Metal Elitist/Metal Veteran/Knowledgeable Metalhead/Dwyer Metal fan who has been listening to loud music most of their life and is knowledgeable on all fronts of metal. They live and die by heavy music, and can name any band just by their sound. These people have the choice to feel enlightened over the other two kinds of fans or to not feel enlightened at all. It is personal choice, and most people find them to be elitist assholes. Person number two: Average Metal Fan/Metalhead/Newer fan of metal These people haven't been listening to metal as long as the first type, but love everything about it. Their profound love for metal may even supersede that of most "metal veterans" because the music is still fresh and new to them. Most metalheads fall in this category. But like the "metal veterans", they have a personal choice in feeling superior than other metalheads. Person number three: Hipsters/Overnighters/Posers/Social Metalheads These are the people that want to be cool and different. They're the shallow-souled versions of your average indie rocker, but with a bite. They're attracted to the metal subculture and claim to enjoy the music, but can't hold a conversation about the music and what it really means. They're the social scum of metal; anything that is loud and has people headbanging must mean it's good. The big question is: what purpose does metal elitism serve? The social hierarchy of metal (whether you want to admit it or not) has turned into a cesspool full of shit. Does metal elitism reflect personal insecurities with oneself? If that's the case, then metal elitists are no different than hipsters, right? While this may seem like an overly analytical dissertation with no real meaning, we must all remember that music is music and it will always have fans no matter what. Metal subculture is different than say, prog-rock subculture.. there's no question. It seems metal fans have more social insecurities than any other type of music fan, and metal elitism is just the tip of the iceberg. Remember kiddos, be fans of the music and not fans of the social structure within the metal community. So in short, metal elitists are now hipsters because metal is now mainstream. The end. [img] |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 1:57pm - arilliusbm ""] I should have added NORTHERN ELITE HEADBANGERS next to Dwyer's name. Either way, this thread fails to deliver any real meaning. I just wanted to point out that metal is mainstream now and elitism is old newz. Also, I'm a hipster and everyone that listens to metal is. |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:01pm - Randy_Marsh ""] this thread comes off as manic |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:02pm - Paul CNV ""] I don't live in the city so I don't have to bother with all that... The only person that likes metal as much as me on this seacoast is MaClean... and No One Likes Us here... and we don't care |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:03pm - arilliusbm ""] Indeed it does. No matter how hard I try, I can't make good retro Conservationist threads. |
| ___________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:03pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] i dont even like to refer to myself as a metalhead anymore. i love metal but enjoy too many other types of music to pigeonhole myself. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:04pm - arilliusbm ""] Paul%20CNV said:I don't live in the city so I don't have to bother with all that... The only person that likes metal as much as me on this seacoast is MaClean... and No One Likes Us here... and we don't care right there with you. i don't live in the city either, but there's no maclean down here 8^( |
| _______________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:05pm - average cock ""] FuckIsMySignature said:i dont even like to refer to myself as a metalhead anymore. i love metal but enjoy too many other types of music to pigeonhole myself. FALSER:tmnt4: |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:07pm - vomittincarcass ""] unfortunately tru metal aint mainstream, my cd player has been broken and its godamn impossible to find any thing that even resembles metal on the radio. you got some nice old school hard rock, but thats just not it. and yea, thinking your better than other people because youve had more years to hear more bands is just another waste of time/energy. just like those other cool guys who get all elitist on you cuz you dont know how to curse in klingon. on the other hand its godamn annoying when some fake fuck walks in talkin metal and starts listing slipknot etc.. bottom line, who cares, fuck em. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:07pm - arilliusbm ""] I always find myself listening to the metal I grew up on. I just can't get into many newer death or black metal bands. Doesn't mean I'm an elitist hipster. Oh wait, it does by how this thread presents itself. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:11pm - dreadkill ""] i used to get really annoyed with person number 3, but now i don't give much of a fuck anymore. i just like what i like and i don't care about what anyone else does. sometimes i still get a little annoyed, but over the last few years i've realized there's way more important shit to worry about than what some other asshole does. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:11pm - Paul CNV ""] arilliusbm said:I always find myself listening to the metal I grew up on. I just can't get into many newer death or black metal bands. Doesn't mean I'm an elitist hipster. Oh wait, it does by how this thread presents itself. I think you can equate that with getting old, bitter, and jaded... There are old timers out there that won't even bother with anything new... Anything post 94' is not worth hearing to them |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:12pm - arilliusbm ""] dreadkill said:i used to get really annoyed with person number 3, but now i don't give much of a fuck anymore. i just like what i like and i don't care about what anyone else does. sometimes i still get a little annoyed, but over the last few years i've realized there's way more important shit to worry about than what some other asshole does. agreed. unless it's duckduckgoose. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:13pm - Paul CNV ""] dreadkill said:i used to get really annoyed with person number 3, but now i don't give much of a fuck anymore. i just like what i like and i don't care about what anyone else does. sometimes i still get a little annoyed, but over the last few years i've realized there's way more important shit to worry about than what some other asshole does. Hits the nail on the head... |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:13pm - narkybark ""] I'm an old timer who enjoys a lot of new stuff, so what does that make me? |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:15pm - MillenialKingdom ""] You forgot the hobby rockers. |
| ___________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:18pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] narkybark said:I'm an old timer who enjoys a lot of new stuff, so what does that make me? McGunk |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:18pm - narkybark ""] :/ |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:20pm - largefreakatzero ""] Paul%20CNV said: arilliusbm said:I always find myself listening to the metal I grew up on. I just can't get into many newer death or black metal bands. Doesn't mean I'm an elitist hipster. Oh wait, it does by how this thread presents itself. I think you can equate that with getting old, bitter, and jaded... There are old timers out there that won't even bother with anything new... Anything post 94' is not worth hearing to them I hear you guys there, the late 80s and early 90s was my time as well. I don't write off newer stuff though, but I better appreciate bands that have some elements of that timeframe in their music. I think my riff-writing also reflects those years, whether it be death metal, hardcore, or even punk. I don't really understand being into music for the social aspect only -- if a band doesn't grab you by the balls and demand some sort of attention or reaction from you, why would you even waste your time with it? |
| _______________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:24pm - Mutis ""] Average Metal Elitist: Hails, Other Average Metal Elitist! I just got myself Blood-Spangled Dogma's obscure "Tetra-gorevomit" EP on Vinyl. Have you heard it? Other Average Metal Elitist: No, Average Metal Elitist. I've been too busy enjoying Corpse Grenade's lastest never-before-heard side-project "Nuclear Sewage Pizza." Have you heard it? Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of Unholy Gore Ninja Massacre? Other Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of God Blasphemy Dogs? Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of Muerte Assassina Puta? Other Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard of Pagan God's Thor's Pagan? Average Metal Elitist: No, have you heard Gandalf's Black throne? Other Average Metal Elitist: No. Wanna play D&D? |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:26pm - arilliusbm ""] Individualism is where it's at. But real Individualism, not social individualism (an oxymoron it may be, but understandable in some sense) |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:34pm - Alx_Casket ""] I liked Unholy Gore Ninja Massacre's 1994 demo. It was downhill after that. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:34pm - arktouros ""] I have been listening to heavy music since I had the capacity to make the choice, but I had no true exposure to death metal until I was out of high school. I'm the guy that can tell who a band is or exactly where their influences lie just by the sound, but I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge like Jim or Dwyer. It's in my nature to absorb the best or most useful form of anything and completely ignore any extraneous data, for better or worse, which I why I don't care about 99% of music that passes by, but that 1% I cannot live without. I've found that anybody who makes an effort to seek out bands far beyond the mainstream, especially in heavy music, has a certain type of personality, and a rebellious disposition from the start. They exhibit at the very least a respectable taste in all art, and inevitably know that their taste is "refined" even if they don't have to make other people know about it. I have no use for elitism or fascism in any form, but it's hard to deny feelings of disdain toward someone who does not make efforts to refine their artistic taste. Remember that it's 2011, the roots of metal have been around for a lifetime now. The information age tends to dumb down everything, but there are still kids out there that can tell if something has artistic value or not. It's a generational thing, metal (or even just loud music) is becoming more mainstream and fewer are able to sort the good from the bad. It takes people with that disposition to shun what is popular and make the effort... |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:39pm - arilliusbm ""] Well said. |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 2:48pm - largefreakatzero ""] And there is a horrific amount of "bad" to sort through... |
| ________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:23pm - Mark_R ""] Personally, I'm into metal entirely for the music and not at all for the social aspect. I'm not much of a friends type since I don't talk much. I don't dislike the social aspect - metal shows are the only shows where I've had spontaneous conversations with fellow attendees. But I'm also a dork, so I don't have much in common with the badass/scary guy metalhead types even if I like some of the same bands they do. I didn't grow up with metal; I got into it only when I was 18-19 and in college. I cannot remember any metalheads at my high school. Plenty of hardcore kids, but no metalheads. Because I'm second generation, I don't have the sentimental attachment to the 70s and 80s that old-timers do. But given a choice, I'd rather investigate an older metal band than a newer one. Ghost may be cool, but until I have every Mercyful Fate album memorized top to bottom, I don't see the point of spending much time on Ghost. If there are metal fans living near me (east part of the city) I haven't seen any of them. I actually have been considering moving west or north just to be closer to shows. I acquire new music at a slow rate, so I have no hopes of ever being the encyclopedic-knowledge type. I also value depth more than breadth, so I'd rather listen to a few good albums a ton fo times than a lot of good albums just a few times. I realize and accept the fact that this means that I will always be missing out on a lot of good music. |
| __________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:28pm - kali_mah ""] I find that most people assume I’m involved in Black Metal in order to meet men. This couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s true that I met my boyfriend through playing music, but lucky for me my boyfriend is an honest and respectful individual as well as a brilliant musician. These categories, true metalheads, hipster metalheads, etc, could be applied to any social scene. What really angers me is when I see other women disrespected just because they are women and when I see other women behaving like groupies. For me, Black Metal is an outlet to express my emotion about the social constraints applied to me because I’m a woman. Black Metal isn’t about gaining approval for proving self-worth. When I can hang out with my friends, drink a beer, and listen to Melencolia Estatica, that’s when my love for Black Metal shines through. Black Metal elitism is just like any other form of elitism, it is an expression of self-doubt as well as a symbol of social conformity. I love Etta James just as much as I love Absu, I’m not going to walk around and pretend to be a metal know-it-all, or that Black Metal is the only music I listen to. I respect people who strive to be free of social norms. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:36pm - dreadkill ""] largefreakatzero said:And there is a horrific amount of "bad" to sort through... |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:38pm - arktouros ""] kali_mah said:I love Etta James just as much as I love Absu fuuck yeeah. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:39pm - dreadkill ""] Mark_R said: Ghost may be cool, but until I have every Mercyful Fate album memorized top to bottom, I don't see the point of spending much time on Ghost. i like this. |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:54pm - thirdknuckle ""] There's just as much Blue Oyster Cult in Ghost as there is Mercyful Fate. |
| ________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:55pm - Mark_R ""] OK, but you understand what I was trying to say |
| ______________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:55pm - SLAG ""] STFU and let me enjoy my music. |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 3:56pm - BlessedOffalNLI ""] Paul%20CNV said:I don't live in the city so I don't have to bother with all that... The only person that likes metal as much as me on this seacoast is MaClean... and No One Likes Us here... and we don't care AGREED. I live in the city and could care less about whether people think Im metal or not. True metal will never be about how many patches you can fit on your jacket. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:04pm - arilliusbm ""] It should be noted that there are many different kinds of emotions that are present in other kinds of music which are absent in metal. |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:05pm - thirdknuckle ""] Mark_R said:OK, but you understand what I was trying to say I do. But I enjoy hearing 70's and 80's bands recycled by today's bands. Sometimes. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:07pm - Alx_Casket ""] It should be noted that there are many different kinds of emotions that are present in other kinds of music which are absent in metal. Which is why there is still room to grow. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:10pm - arilliusbm ""] I disagree in some ways, bit agree in others. The metal foundation should always be prevelant. |
| _______________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:13pm - sigh ""] sums it up pretty good at about 40 seconds in. bennyhillifier |
| __________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:16pm - kali_mah ""] I agree, there is defiantly room to grow. Musical growth is synonymous with emotional growth. |
| _______________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:23pm - sigh ""] Oone thing I've noticed about people in the U.S in general is that most people that aren't metal fans enjoy listening to music that they can sing along to. The first thing they usually say when they hear a loud band is "why do they have to sing with a scary voice". They stop right their and don't give the rest of the song a chance. Metal fans I think learn to appreciate more than just the lyrics and singing that dominates popular music. They listen to the instrumentation more over the singing. Even if they don't understand the singing or the language a song is being sung in they can still appreciate other aspects like the vocal harmonies or how metal vocals can add another layer of distortion with the guitars. This is true for me at least. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:41pm - Alx_Casket ""] ^which is why I like TBTB |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:44pm - dreadkill ""] i care way more about the music than the vocals or lyrics and i'm a singer. those things are important, but if you have good singing and well-written lyrics over cruddy music, it's worthless. i can live with vocals being just a layer that adds to the music rather than the main focus. the lyrics could be about someone wishing death on me personally, but if the music is good, i'll like it. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 4:53pm - arilliusbm ""] dreadkill said:. the lyrics could be about someone wishing death on me personally, but if the music is good, i'll like it. Brutal Death Shoegaze Jazz band called Kenkill or gtfo |
| ______________________________ [Apr 13,2011 5:12pm - Lamp ""] Metal is actually a newer thing for me, over the past couple years for the most part, despite the fact that I've been posting here much longer. I was mostly a punk/grind guys for years after listening to a small scattering of a bunch of different genres in high school. Eventually I was able to hone in on one thing I really liked a whole lot, but the recent transition to metal in a lot of ways stems from boredom with my own guitar playing. There really isn't a whole lot you can do with punk and I felt I had gotten as good as I was going to get. There is also the fact that parting ways with my guitar scares the ever-loving shit out of me because it's one of the only things I have in my life where I feel truly confident in my ability. So I knew I had to expand my horizons and see what else I could do with this instrument and I've heard some pretty damn kick ass bands out of it. Another aspect that led to this evolution is simply the fact that festivals of a certain genre, no matter where in the country they are have the same bands on them and you end up seeing the same shit over and over. It's almost like a brand name being pushed on you... this is just as true of metal as it is punk, but metal has clearly evolved into more styles and it's not as if I've shunned the music I once loved before, it just doesn't play as big a role in my life as it used to. When the desire to hear more sounds becomes lost, the social aspect is the only thing you have left, and anyone who bases their life on socialization is a hollow shell of a human being indeed. As far as screaming goes, I greatly prefer screaming/instrumental music because it removes the human element from the sound in a way... obviously there are people still playing the instruments and belting out the gutturals and what not, but when you can't understand what they're saying, it's real easy to forget. I take more solace in solitude than being around someone I can't relate to, and such is why I don't listen to genres like rap or pop because it's just people revealing themselves (often how fucking boring they are) and the music is an afterthought. I can't relate to anyone who places speaking their mind as something more important than creating sounds or art (which is exactly the problem with the modern hardcore scene). |
| ______________________________ [Apr 13,2011 5:18pm - blue ""] Lifelong metalhead who still gets inspired by modern bands here. Sorry. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 5:27pm - conservationist ""] I like the tripartite division. I think it's most accurate, with one addition: the first category splits into two. arilliusbm said:(tl;dr) Person number one: Metal Elitist/Metal Veteran/Knowledgeable Metalhead/Dwyer Metal fan who has been listening to loud music most of their life and is knowledgeable on all fronts of metal. They live and die by heavy music, and can name any band just by their sound. (b) THOSE WHO TAKE IT PERSONALLY LIKE HIPSTERS. These people have the choice to feel enlightened over the other two kinds of fans or to not feel enlightened at all. It is personal choice, and most people find them to be elitist assholes. To that you could add: (a) THOSE WHO VIEW METAL AS A COMMUNITY OR ABSTRACT IDEA. These people don't care if they are personally enlightened or not, but care about musical quality and allegiance to an artistic idea, whether they like it or not. For them, elitism is about choosing music of quality, and quality is determined not only by artistry (including musicianship and composition) but by the quality and relevance of what the music expresses. For these people, it is not personal at all, but rather the opposite. They see us all and themselves as means to an end, of a larger gestalt or union of community and idea. #a elitist includes 4/5 of the quality metal musicians I've met/written. |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 5:34pm - BlessedOffalNLI ""] blue said:Lifelong metalhead who still gets inspired by modern bands here. Sorry.agreed. Music should have something behind it, but over-analying takes the art out of it. Metal will always have something to offer. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 5:52pm - Headbanging_Man ""] arilliusbm said:I should have added NORTHERN ELITE HEADBANGERS next to Dwyer's name. Oh come on, Dwyer was signing shitty mosh-death bands when NEH were just getting into Pokemon! :LOL: |
| ___________________________________________ [Apr 13,2011 6:10pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] ITT: Listen to what music you like and stop giving a shit about anything else. |